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What is LIBERTY?

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    #76
    Re: What is LIBERTY?

    A parent who "can't afford" to give their child a good education, obviously isn't trying hard enough. I can understand if they have a disability, or some sort of long term medical condtion. Otherwise, it's just bad prioritizing.

    Those kids deserve better parents.

    Checkups aren't that expensive, I get one every now and again and I only make about eight hundred dollars a month. If I got a serious illness there's no way I can afford it with what I make. I accept that, and work on correcting that all the time.

    Life's a gamble, so make sure you stack the deck. I have several nest eggs, just in case. I have four entire unpublished books, and a support network. I've worked hard to make damn sure I can get back up if I fall.

    Yes doctors being jackasses is a bad thing, but that is true regarless of systems. It's a patients primary respocibility to be well informed.

    Also, if nothing else there's always free clinics.
    Trust is knowing someone or something well enough to have a good idea of their motivations and character, for good or for ill. People often say trust when they mean faith.

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      #77
      Re: What is LIBERTY?

      I think you're ridiculously naive. That is all.

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        #78
        Re: What is LIBERTY?

        I'll take that as a compliment.
        Trust is knowing someone or something well enough to have a good idea of their motivations and character, for good or for ill. People often say trust when they mean faith.

        Comment

          #79
          Re: What is LIBERTY?

          Originally posted by perzephone View Post
          Yes, there are people like Bill Gates & his wife who create charitable organizations that do good work - but if you took away the tax breaks and the publicity would they be inclined to perform the same way? Or would they be a tad bit stingier?
          I can't draw any conclusions based on a lack of information.

          Some people, even those who have money, are decent people who will do decent things. Is he like that? I have no idea.
          Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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            #80
            Re: What is LIBERTY?

            Originally posted by Denarius View Post
            A parent who "can't afford" to give their child a good education, obviously isn't trying hard enough. I can understand if they have a disability, or some sort of long term medical condition. Otherwise, it's just bad prioritizing.
            Where do you live, anyway? You seem to be coming from somewhere that is at least middle-class to upper middle-class, where everyone has job security, owns their homes, can pay the bills and put food on the table, all while affording decent medical care and a college education for their kids. Your arguments aren't convincing because you honestly don't seem to have much experience out in the real world.

            Have you ever been homeless? Ever had to go to a soup kitchen or dumpster dive for your next meal? Sell your body and soul to make it to the next paycheck, without knowing when or if you'd even get one? Ever had to sleep in a bathtub away from the front of your home because there were shoot-outs on the street outside? Seen a body lay in that street for three days because the cops & coroner's office didn't care enough to risk their lives coming to remove it? Have you ever even been to a free clinic?

            It is liberating to know that no one really cares if you live or die, but trust me, it sure doesn't feel good while you're doing it.
            Last edited by Ophidia; 04 Nov 2011, 07:17. Reason: Double post due to flood control
            The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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              #81
              Re: What is LIBERTY?

              I still find them non-convincing even if he were coming from that position. I'm from an upper middle class family and I don't think that just because I could probably have afforded things in a privatized system, everyone else could too. I was lucky by birth but some people weren't. I don't think it entitles me to more than they get.

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                #82
                Re: What is LIBERTY?

                Taholah

                I live in a town where pretty much everyone is related in some fashion, the worst we get are rowdy kids and the occasional meth lab. The only people who make any real money are the folk who work for the BIA, or the tribal office. Everyone else is either on SSI, fishes, or works elsewhere.

                I'll admit I have it good, I only make like eight hundred bucks a month... But I don't pay taxes or rent, and only a third of the total utilites.

                The only reason I could afford to go to college in the first place was because of a scholarship, and I blew that chance when I dropped out.

                And now I'm a college dropout with no driver's license or job experience. I can't afford to move anywhere, and there's no jobs to be had here.

                Also, I have been to a free clinic. It was quaint.

                So yeah, my life was charmed... well except for my childhood, but that's irrelevant.

                Yes, it sucks that people are poor. If we take away the consequences, they will never learn. If someone is poor because of a medical reason or they were impovershed by forces outside of their control, then that would be a legitimate reason for being poor.

                If someone is poor because they are lazy, unlucky, or made poor decisions then too bad for them. They just need to get unpoor.

                An adult of sound mind and body has no excuse for being poor other than choosing to be poor, they have a body and mind they should stop lollygagging and use them.
                Trust is knowing someone or something well enough to have a good idea of their motivations and character, for good or for ill. People often say trust when they mean faith.

                Comment

                  #83
                  Re: What is LIBERTY?

                  Because people who are poor are -always- poor because of some fault of their own....

                  Comment

                    #84
                    Re: What is LIBERTY?

                    Originally posted by DanieMarie View Post
                    Because people who are poor are -always- poor because of some fault of their own....
                    lol...of course they are...because it never has anything to do with the state of the economy...
                    Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
                    sigpic

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                      #85
                      Re: What is LIBERTY?

                      I think that what Denarius means isn't that it is a person's fault for being poor (nobody can help where and when they are born), but is is their fault if they remain poor for lack of trying. If I'm wrong, Denarius, feel free to correct me.

                      He mentions the BIA and tribal office. If he lives near a res, he may well have good reasons for believing this.
                      Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

                      Comment

                        #86
                        Re: What is LIBERTY?

                        I don't know what the situations are with reservations are in the US, but I can tell you that from my experience in where I've lived people don't remain poor through a lack of trying. This is even more true of the native community (referring to Canada here, obviously native Germans are German lol), which has deep social problems.

                        I wonder who I'd be today if the world had that attitude? My mom grew up really poor (her dad left her family when she was 7 and my Oma didn't speak English, because it was the 60s and she was a housewife). She would have never had the education she did under a system like that, because my Oma couldn't have afforded it. My mom also said that due to the divorce and the social stress of being in a foreign country and left alone with two small children (and probably only even allowed to stay because my uncle was born in Canada), knowing she couldn't go back because they lost everything in the war...anyway it was a lot to handle and she became deeply depressed, which didn't help the getting out of the financial rut thing at all. But thanks to the safety net of welfare, programs to get people back into work and the Canadian education system, everything turned out ok. It took almost a decade, but it turned out ok. I can imagine though how, without those, my mom would have continued to be poor, and probably any other children she would have had would have been poor.

                        I study business, and I take an economics class. Now, even economists don't totally understand all the mechanisms behind economics, and the rules of the game have changed a lot, but one thing is definitely solid: poverty can be a trap, and sometimes when you're in it, you can't get out, no matter how much effort you put in. This is ESPECIALLY true of countries that don't have support for the poor, and much less true of countries that do. There's also different kinds of poverty. Some people are in it because of their circumstances but perhaps don't come from a long line of poverty (circumstantial poverty) and they're likely to make it out through education and hard work. Those who are part of a generational poverty cycle, however, don't have such an easy time changing their economic status.

                        And then there's other factors, such as long-term unemployment. It's much, much easier to find a job when you have a job (something I've not only read but also experienced), and the long-term unemployed are much less likely to be hired.

                        Poverty is a long, complex topic. It's hardly black and white. Are some people poor because they're lazy? Sure. Are most people poor because they're lazy? No. There are so many, many reasons why someone might be poor, and why they might not be able to get out of poverty.
                        Last edited by DanieMarie; 04 Nov 2011, 11:50.

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                          #87
                          Re: What is LIBERTY?

                          Already answered:

                          Originally posted by Denarius View Post
                          Yes, it sucks that people are poor. If we take away the consequences, they will never learn. If someone is poor because of a medical reason or they were impovershed by forces outside of their control, then that would be a legitimate reason for being poor.

                          If someone is poor because they are lazy, unlucky, or made poor decisions then too bad for them. They just need to get unpoor.

                          An adult of sound mind and body has no excuse for being poor other than choosing to be poor, they have a body and mind they should stop lollygagging and use them.
                          Trust is knowing someone or something well enough to have a good idea of their motivations and character, for good or for ill. People often say trust when they mean faith.

                          Comment

                            #88
                            Re: What is LIBERTY?

                            Like I've said before, you have absolutely no understanding of the various and complex mechanisms behind poverty.

                            Comment

                              #89
                              Re: What is LIBERTY?

                              They just need to get unpoor.
                              Omg. You are a genius. Go forth and tell the poor people that!
                              Satan is my spirit animal

                              Comment

                                #90
                                Re: What is LIBERTY?

                                People overcomplicate things. If you have it tough you just get tougher than the situation or change your circumstances.

                                We all have to play the cards were dealt. If that doesn't work, you fold and start over.

                                If you can't thrive where you are, you migrate. That's what our ancestors did, and that worked for them.
                                Trust is knowing someone or something well enough to have a good idea of their motivations and character, for good or for ill. People often say trust when they mean faith.

                                Comment

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