Should Developed Countries Give Aid to Developing Countries?

[Jembru]

Re: Should Developed Countries Give Aid to Developing Countries?

As a citizen of a contributing country to the third world debt*, yes, I believe we have a duty to aid the countries we have shat on. I agree that aid is often poorly distributed and often fails to reach the people who need it most (I know, I have inside information from a secret source called 'Panorama', anyone see last Monday? It was about aid given to third world countries!). Indeed, we DO need to do more to address our own poverty issues, but if we were on our knees, if we were desperate, we sure would hope some angel from overseas would come and rescue us.

I don't however, have the answers. I don't know how we can prevent corrupt governments from misdirecting the funds we send. But not sending anything is hardly fair either. There must be a way (Derren Brown.. I'm super cereal..).

The human race is so freaking greedy. Our societies are messed up. This 'take care of our own first' attitude goes so far that we let our own PARENTS rot in poorly staffed and underfunded carehomes because we 'haven't the time or money' and 'our kids come first'.. hope those kids later let you rot in a care home..

How about the super rich start paying their freaking taxes.. that could help 'our poor at home'.. before we start pointing the finger at races who know no different, who are having far too many kids, how about WE stop having such large families with no regard of the fact there simply won't be the jobs or housing available for their huge families when they grow up..

Oh to hell with it... can't we just destroy the whole damn human race and start again? I call cat-people.. like on Red Dwarf..

*I actually thought we had cancelled third world debt. I read Tylluan's post and thought, 'Ah, did you not realise things have changed since those protest marches you went on..' Then I thought, 'less patronising, more googling..' and woah, nope, we're still demanding repayment. Wow..recession? bah, karma if you ask me!

[westwoden]

Re: Should Developed Countries Give Aid to Developing Countries?

And this is the fault of the people living in those countries how again?

For not doing anything about it.

Revolution, regime change, fighting for rights etc. - this could have been attempted.

They sat back and allowed the cronies to sell them out, and thus had to pay the consequences.

No use blaming it on the outsiders - like I said, many of these folk never grew spines.

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As a citizen of a contributing country to the third world debt*, yes, I believe we have a duty to aid the countries we have shat on.

We have no duty whatsoever, other than perhaps basic humanitarian aid.

If those countries could not keep up with the game then they must pay for it now, by being servants of the West.

It sounds harsh, but would you rather it were the other way around?

no, I thought not.

[Jembru]

Re: Should Developed Countries Give Aid to Developing Countries?

I had better go out and stab all my neighbours.. it might sound harsh, but hey, if I don't get rid of them now, it could be the other way around and I wouldn't like that... Remember me...

[westwoden]

Re: Should Developed Countries Give Aid to Developing Countries?

Like all things regarding humanity, there is a hierarchy - like it or not.

Competition is what drives people, and as in business we also have a hierarchy of nations.

This is not to say that one group of people is better than another, just that an order exists and things will always be this way.

What position in the order do you want to be?

We owe as much to the impoverished nations as the Eagle owes to the field mouse!

This is the Reality of Nature.

[Jembru]

Re: Should Developed Countries Give Aid to Developing Countries?

I think the eagle owes a lot to the fieldmouse. It's survival for a start... But hey, I know what you're trying to say. I'll never agree with you however, so I'll step away and let someone else tag in..

[Moody Thursday]

Re: Should Developed Countries Give Aid to Developing Countries?

Originally Posted by Dumuzi
And this is the fault of the people living in those countries how again?

For not doing anything about it.
...
No use blaming it on the outsiders - like I said, many of these folk never grew spines.

I think you might be overlooking the fact that some of these citizens might be quite ignorant, easily manipulated, innocent. Doesn't mean they deserve the harm that is being done to them.

Anyhow, it's not like we are all super educated, and we live in the U.S. (Or a 1st world). You don't have to go too far to reach a poverty-stricken community, where you could fool some people, "Here, sign the dotted line", and take advantage of them [do you read everything before you sign? ;-)]. Does that mean the next town over should be okay with that? Should everyone just say "You know what? Screw them. They are too old or too young and ignorant. Not my problem."

That's the way I view it, anyway. Sometimes I think we give too much, and other times I see stuff like (*warning: graphic) THIS, and it just makes me think nothing is going to help anyway. I don't know.

[AzazelEblis]

Re: Should Developed Countries Give Aid to Developing Countries?

Like all things regarding humanity, there is a hierarchy - like it or not.

Competition is what drives people, and as in business we also have a hierarchy of nations.

This is not to say that one group of people is better than another, just that an order exists and things will always be this way.

What position in the order do you want to be?

We owe as much to the impoverished nations as the Eagle owes to the field mouse!

This is the Reality of Nature.

Meanwhile, Cuba has established quite a bit of economic dominance outside of the loop of exploitation. They have a higher living standard than India, for all its "economic modernization", if that says anything. With their trade and technological alliances throughout south america, like Venezuela, they have bolstered their own, and the living standards of other nations.

Here's the thing - we've been sold a lie about Free Trade and Capitalism. Ha Joon Chang, in his book "Bad Samaritans: The Myth of Free Trade and the Secret History of Capitalism", he details just how much economic protectionism has helped this world's richest nations establish dominance. Those same nations, in an effort to maintain that dominance (at the expense of the free competition demanded of the Free Market system) have demanded that those nations which are not as wealthy abstain from protectionism.

Indeed, the IMF, the World Bank, and a whole bowl of alphabet soup exists today to perpetuate this exploitation - often as a prescription for growth in developing nations. Chang details how South Korea did exactly the opposite in its rise to prominence, having lived through it.

Chang's entire book ends up a spirited defense of Keynesian Economics - an Economic Framework which demands investment in the working class and the poor, and produces actual rising living standards and assuaging poverty, rather than stagnating wages.

[Dumuzi]

Re: Should Developed Countries Give Aid to Developing Countries?

For not doing anything about it.

Revolution, regime change, fighting for rights etc. - this could have been attempted.

They sat back and allowed the cronies to sell them out, and thus had to pay the consequences.

No use blaming it on the outsiders - like I said, many of these folk never grew spines.

Who told you they did nothing about it? Perhaps you should look up the number of people France have killed in Algeria, for example. So not only is it the people's fault when outsiders exploit them, it's also their own fault when they get oppressed by their government? Do you always blame the victim?

What about governments that are supported by foreign countries? You make it sound so easy to get rid of that oppression, so please tell me how you personally have ended the support of your country of other oppressive regimes. I'd like to learn from you.

[Medusa]

Re: Should Developed Countries Give Aid to Developing Countries?

For not doing anything about it.

Revolution, regime change, fighting for rights etc. - this could have been attempted.

They sat back and allowed the cronies to sell them out, and thus had to pay the consequences.

No use blaming it on the outsiders - like I said, many of these folk never grew spines.

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We have no duty whatsoever, other than perhaps basic humanitarian aid.

If those countries could not keep up with the game then they must pay for it now, by being servants of the West.

It sounds harsh, but would you rather it were the other way around?

no, I thought not.

Do you not watch the world news? It's ALL REVOLUTION 24/7 over in the middle east and many of those third world countries. What the hell do you think they are doing? Just sitting in the pyramids sipping their tea? Come on. I'm calling troll on you till you prove you have some brainz.

[westwoden]

Re: Should Developed Countries Give Aid to Developing Countries?

Who told you they did nothing about it? Perhaps you should look up the number of people France have killed in Algeria, for example. So not only is it the people's fault when outsiders exploit them, it's also their own fault when they get oppressed by their government?

We've seen plenty of examples recently of people effecting regime change in their own lands.

ie: Libya, Egypt and attempts in Syria.

This is what I'm talking about.

If one doesn't like the way their countries are being run then the people must force change.

What about governments that are supported by foreign countries? You make it sound so easy to get rid of that oppression, so please tell me how you personally have ended the support of your country of other oppressive regimes. I'd like to learn from you.

The people in the recipient nations lap up the money and the lies they are fed their leaders (aka: aid money and indoctrination) , yet then wonder why they are still international servants.

Like I said, they must grow a backbone, kick out their corrupt leaders and organise themselves.

Living off the teat of the international aid breast only makes them slaves.

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Do you not watch the world news? It's ALL REVOLUTION 24/7 over in the middle east and many of those third world countries. What the hell do you think they are doing? Just sitting in the pyramids sipping their tea? Come on. I'm calling troll on you till you prove you have some brainz.

Those countries you are referring to have made attempts at change.

Plenty have not, especially in the past.

If we look at the colonial period, places like India, China, Africa, SE Asia etc.., free reign was given to the imperialists to have their way as they benefited the local elites.

So the people did it to themselves through connivance, corruption and hypocrisy.

For this reason, the West owes them nothing today.

[Dumuzi]

Re: Should Developed Countries Give Aid to Developing Countries?

Like I said, they must grow a backbone, kick out their corrupt leaders and organise themselves.

Living off the teat of the international aid breast only makes them slaves.

So let's say they fight back but are losing because foreign powers are too strong at the moment, do they still not deserve your help? Is it still their fault?

[Medusa]

Re: Should Developed Countries Give Aid to Developing Countries?

We've seen plenty of examples recently of people effecting regime change in their own lands.

ie: Libya, Egypt and attempts in Syria.

This is what I'm talking about.

If one doesn't like the way their countries are being run then the people must force change.



The people in the recipient nations lap up the money and the lies they are fed their leaders (aka: aid money and indoctrination) , yet then wonder why they are still international servants.

Like I said, they must grow a backbone, kick out their corrupt leaders and organise themselves.

Living off the teat of the international aid breast only makes them slaves.

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Those countries you are referring to have made attempts at change.

Plenty have not, especially in the past.

If we look at the colonial period, places like India, China, Africa, SE Asia etc.., free reign was given to the imperialists to have their way as they benefited the local elites.

So the people did it to themselves through connivance, corruption and hypocrisy.

For this reason, the West owes them nothing today.

You know I could argue back. But to be honest? Both our words are mere hypothetical situations. And it's easy to make these assumptions from where we are. You do realize the man you are talking to is actually in one of those countries and is uprising quite regularly against the oppression he sees. But ten to one, if he could..he would rise up against all oppression. So why shouldn't we? We are not the West. We are human beings. We owe each other.

duh.:=L:

[DanieMarie]

Re: Should Developed Countries Give Aid to Developing Countries?

I agree with DanieMarie and Tylluan Penry.

I'd also like to add that it's unrealistic to say "We gotta help ourselves first, then help other countries", because there's never going to be a day when our country is 100% okay.
One theory I found is that foreign aid is "Strategic investment. Foreign aid helps countries whose interests align with our own increase their capacities. The United States gives money to help select countries -- not the entire world -- improve specific abilities, like their ability to provide public security, defend their borders, or buy and sell goods."
The reasons I've seen most often (from what little research I've done online), are humanitarian, political, and developmental reasons.

This is actually an important point. After WWII, the US pumped a lot of money into fixing Europe. A LOT. A recovered Europe was a large market for US goods, so it worked well for both parties. I was reading a great paper on this for university last year (I'll try to dig it up later and reference it!) bringing up this point, stating how doing something along the same lines today in other countries could be highly beneficial.

[westwoden]

Re: Should Developed Countries Give Aid to Developing Countries?

So let's say they fight back but are losing because foreign powers are too strong at the moment, do they still not deserve your help? Is it still their fault?

Yes, because their leaders and elites are their compatriates.

So 'Developingland' leaders are exploiting their own people!

The masses are being sold out by their own blood brothers.

[Dumuzi]

Re: Should Developed Countries Give Aid to Developing Countries?

Yes, because their leaders and elites are their compatriates.

So 'Developingland' leaders are exploiting their own people!

The masses are being sold out by their own blood brothers.

I have no idea what you just said. My question is very direct. Someone is fighting against oppression, do they or do they not deserve our help to win the fight against oppression?