Community Raising

[Shahaku]

The pansy parents thread kind of made me think of this. One thing I feel is kind of missing from a child's life these days is the sense of being raised by a community, not just the child's parents. Anymore, if a stranger reprimands a kid for doing something bad, the stranger has to worry about getting sued or taken in by police. I'm not saying a stranger should smack a kid around, but firmly telling them "No" and sending them on their way even seems frowned on. And worse yet, I think a lot of people just don't care. Like, "Not my kid, not my problem." But all these kids are going to rampant adult in our society right? And when a kid is running around a restaurant disturbing everyone's meal or screaming like their dying because they don't like their choice of crayons and the manager can't even say anything for fear of developing a bad rep, isn't there something wrong with that?

Now, I'm not saying that parents shouldn't be integral in raising their kids. I'm not saying that random people should raise a kid. If parents were doing a good job, incidents like bad restaurant manners wouldn't be so rampant (though I know you can't always avoid a tantrum) But the influence of a community is important, right? And it should be an important part of growing up. Right?

Now, I remember spending time with a lot of my neighbors when I was little and none of them seemed to have a problem sending me on my way when they were tired of me or setting me straight when I was being impolite. And I know it helped me develop into a decent human being. I don't want my kids to miss out on that sense of community. And to top it off, I'm kind of an introvert. I don't have a ton of friends. In fact, I can name three friends that are not a part of my family and I've known them all for four or five years at least. I went through four years of college and came out the other side without a single new lasting contact. I'm fine with that for myself, but I do wonder how it's going to affect my kids since I do want them to have that sense of community which I feel is so important.

So, I guess, what is your opinion in general?

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: Community Raising

I agree. There are few homogenous communities these days. As much as I like diversity it does have some drawbacks. If every neighbor is a different religion/ethnicity, their paradigms of children's behavior will also likely differ.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Community Raising

It's still a thing here. Nagging other people's children is a common German passtime. Good thing too, because there's a popular strain of parenting (I think it's international) that thinks children should be allowed to do absolutely whatever they want, no matter how disruptive, in order to bring out their creativity. There are kids that will actually get into your stuff and climb on your table, and their parents will do absolutely nothing about it. If I couldn't nag them, I don't know what I'd do.

[Ula]

Re: Community Raising

How many parent bashing threads do we need at this point?

[Jembru]

Re: Community Raising

I'm horrible to kids. There was once a kid in a shopping queue that was touching things despite his mother telling him 'no'. He ended up getting his fingers hurt in the very thing his mum was telling him to leave alone so I laughed, audiably. Then there was the time a kid of about 9 or 10 years ran up to me in a park, hit me and shouted, 'haha, mugged you'.. he did this to me twice, and it was in a park I was genuinely mugged in as a kid (I had my new bike stolen by teenagers only a few days after I got it for Christmas). So JP ran after the kid, grabbed him by the hood dragged him over to me and made him say sorry while loads of adults looked on (it was a kids play park). JP could have got into sooo much trouble for this, but why the hell is it okay to punch someone for fun? No matter what age you are, that is NOT okay.

Then there was the fat little sh*t that was swinging upside down on a railing. He was deliberately swinging his head so people had to walk around him. It was dangerous, his stupid mother was doing nothing. He was making a really irritating noise too. So I decided NOT to walk around him. I pretended to be looking at my phone so not looking where I was going and I walked right into him. He shouted after me 'idiot' but I managed to resist replying, 'yes, yes you are...'

I must never, ever be left alone with Children. I really cannot stand badly behaved kids.

It's interesting what Danie said because I noticed kids in Germany weren't half as bad as they are in the UK. I wonder if this is because kids in Germany know that if they step out of line, they will be corrected by a total stranger and that is scary stuff. I DID see noisy and naughty kids in Germany, but much, much less often.

Also, how come kids are soo quiet and well behaved in Japan? I never saw a kid misbehaving in Japan and even the kids in my kids classes at NOVA, were so well-behaved. There was just one kid, that didn't seem able to sit still and concentrate, but you know, he was like 4 years old and the other 4 and 5 year olds ignored him and did as they were told. Mothers tend not to work in Japan and being seen as having perfect, quiet kids, really matters to them, so I am going to go ahead and suggest that if you want your kids to be good, there is a way of getting them to be, but it takes a lot more effort than some parents appear willing to put in.

Why am I replying to a parenting thread? I feel so dirty now.. wash it off... wash it off..

[DanieMarie]

Re: Community Raising

I did nag a kid once in Canada, but only because the mom told us to. In a move of pure parenting win, she brought her 5 year old to our store after she discovered that she'd taken something (I think it was a keychain or a lip balm). She'd asked us to tell her how bad it was to steal and how we normally call the police for that sort of thing. It was kind of hard to do, but we did anyway...I think the idea was that because stealing is something that affects a lot of people, the discipline should involve the people who would be potentially hurt by stealing (ie the store). My best friend's mom did the same thing to her when she was 5 (in her case she stole a Hershey's Kiss from Safeway lol).

- - - Updated - - -

It's interesting what Danie said because I noticed kids in Germany weren't half as bad as they are in the UK. I wonder if this is because kids in Germany know that if they step out of line, they will be corrected by a total stranger and that is scary stuff. I DID see noisy and naughty kids in Germany, but much, much less often.

Or maybe because you weren't in Berlin...I do sometimes forget that it's like a different country here, and that the German love of rules and order does not apply in Berlin.

I think it might be reversing a bit though....I see more parents disciplining kids than I did a few years ago, and kids seem to be better behaved. I know I'm a lot more tolerant than I was before, but I think it's also an actual change.

[Jembru]

Re: Community Raising

Or maybe because you weren't in Berlin...I do sometimes forget that it's like a different country here, and that the German love of rules and order does not apply in Berlin.

I think it might be reversing a bit though....I see more parents disciplining kids than I did a few years ago, and kids seem to be better behaved. I know I'm a lot more tolerant than I was before, but I think it's also an actual change.

Yeah, I was in Bavaria and they seem particularly erm.. I can't think of a word that won't sound offensive and I like the Bavarians, but.. there's something kinda stiff about them. Besides the beer obsession and those sexy lederhosen!

[DanieMarie]

Re: Community Raising

Yeah, I was in Bavaria and they seem particularly erm.. I can't think of a word that won't sound offensive and I like the Bavarians, but.. there's something kinda stiff about them. Besides the beer obsession and those sexy lederhosen!

I think the word you're looking for is "conservative". And they are...nothing against them; I like them too and they're lovely people, but they are much more conservative than people here and it's very noticeable.

[Medusa]

Re: Community Raising

How many parent bashing threads do we need at this point?

we need 8 threads

[Shahaku]

Re: Community Raising

we need 8 threads

I didn't start this to bash parents... It wasn't my intent to talk about specific parenting techniques, only the role of community.

I guess what I'm getting at is an effective way to raise kids that seemed to work decently well for generations was to have community involvement in the kids lives. Not to isolate them from every unknown just for fear of having them hurt. As adults, I think many of us lack trust in our community nowdays, or maybe saying we lack trust in our society would be a better way to put it. But is that going to affect our kids adversely?

[volcaniclastic]

Re: Community Raising

I did nag a kid once in Canada, but only because the mom told us to. In a move of pure parenting win, she brought her 5 year old to our store after she discovered that she'd taken something (I think it was a keychain or a lip balm). She'd asked us to tell her how bad it was to steal and how we normally call the police for that sort of thing. It was kind of hard to do, but we did anyway...I think the idea was that because stealing is something that affects a lot of people, the discipline should involve the people who would be potentially hurt by stealing (ie the store). My best friend's mom did the same thing to her when she was 5 (in her case she stole a Hershey's Kiss from Safeway lol).
.

on a bit of a side note to this, I stole all the time when I was a child. So did my mother. We didn't do it just to steal - we did it for things like: me outgrowing my shoes, and not having enough money to even get a used pair at a thrift store. So we'd go to zellers, or walco (walmart, for those of you who don't remember walco), go find some very cheap shoes that fit me comfortably, and I'd wear them out of the store, leaving my old ones behind.

All of our dishes and silverware came from various restaurants (we might have been poor, but I was still treated to mcD's or A&W once in a while. we had a lot of plastic utensils, and even a couple of those glass A&W mugs)

I'm not saying it's a good thing. But it was a necessary thing.

And now? I wouldn't steal the wings from a fly.

[Shahaku]

Re: Community Raising

Tying ^ back in, did you feel you were a part of a larger community as a kid? If you didn't, do you think that community may have helped you guys out on occasion so you wouldn't have had to steal?

[volcaniclastic]

Re: Community Raising

Tying ^ back in, did you feel you were a part of a larger community as a kid? If you didn't, do you think that community may have helped you guys out on occasion so you wouldn't have had to steal?

We never had anyone. And for the second question, I couldn't say. It's not for my mortal lifetime to guess at how my past could be different. I've done enough of that, as it is.

[Caelia]

Re: Community Raising

When I lived in the city (rather suburbia, but work with me) I was semi-community raised. Neighbors, especially ones with children, were more than happy to teach us things, instill values, and encourage us to think. If we did something and a neighbor chewed us out we knew they would tell our parents too. If we did something at a store we were made to apologize to the owners. I guess I don't see that as community raising as much as what happens when someone's part of a community. Social values aren't something, from my experience, that are just instilled by parents alone. It's something everyone has to do.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Community Raising

on a bit of a side note to this, I stole all the time when I was a child. So did my mother. We didn't do it just to steal - we did it for things like: me outgrowing my shoes, and not having enough money to even get a used pair at a thrift store. So we'd go to zellers, or walco (walmart, for those of you who don't remember walco), go find some very cheap shoes that fit me comfortably, and I'd wear them out of the store, leaving my old ones behind.

All of our dishes and silverware came from various restaurants (we might have been poor, but I was still treated to mcD's or A&W once in a while. we had a lot of plastic utensils, and even a couple of those glass A&W mugs)

I'm not saying it's a good thing. But it was a necessary thing.

And now? I wouldn't steal the wings from a fly.

It's probably because you associate stealing with a sense of uncomfortable necessity. My mom grew up really poor, and she really hates mismatched things now. It really bothers her.