Hunger: How do we fight it?

[Shahaku]

Re: Hunger: How do we fight it?

Chain, I have to say that's a rather healthy outlook really. It's not like we can constantly stress over these issues.

[Dez]

Re: Hunger: How do we fight it?

I agree with a lot of what Chain had to say.

I think, too, though, that ultimately world hunger and homelessness (particularly in a nation like America), are often similar, but separate issues.

Yes, there are times when someone can't get ahead, no matter how hard they try. Due to a series of events, and some stupid choices on our part, my husband, myself, and our daughter almost ended up homeless a little under three years ago. A big part of the problem was that both of us were deeply depressed. The rather Draconic government aid laws in the state we were living in were so extremely shaming, and would not help us because of our recent student status for so long, that by the time we were in desperate condition, we'd given up. Too many people there assumed that we were freeloaders, and no one except for a handful of friends and concerned (out of state) family were concerned enough to treat us as more then social pariahs and undesirables. That right there is *precisely* why I believe putting all social programs and welfare in the hands of groups like churches (who have their own agenda) is a bad idea, whatever the current political right might argue. I've been there.

On the other hand, though...I've helped with aid, both for homeless shelters and via church resources in South Florida, where a lot of homeless end up because of the warm winter. Based on my experience, I'd say that there are many resources for the homeless, however, most of the people who remain homeless for a prolonged period of time do so with some degree of choice involved. They are so addicted to drugs that they can't support any other life, or they have mental issues and refuse to stay on medication that would allow them to function in regular society.

To solve hunger in America, just throwing food at it isn't the answer, with either issue.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Hunger: How do we fight it?

^^
I couldn't agree more.

I always say that for Canada, better support under public health care for mental health issues would help the homelessness problem. In coastal BC it's kind of the same issue as Florida. It's not nearly as warm, but in the winter it's by far the warmest part of the country, so people sort of drift there. The expensive housing finds some people temporarily homeless, but they usually manage to get out of it. The long-termers are usually suffering from addiction or mental illness, neither of which are really widely treated (especially at the beginning when it could really nip a lot of things in the bud).

[Gwen]

Re: Hunger: How do we fight it?

[quote author=Deseret link=topic=403.msg7439#msg7439 date=1288221443]
On the other hand, though...I've helped with aid, both for homeless shelters and via church resources in South Florida, where a lot of homeless end up because of the warm winter. Based on my experience, I'd say that there are many resources for the homeless, however, most of the people who remain homeless for a prolonged period of time do so with some degree of choice involved. They are so addicted to drugs that they can't support any other life, or they have mental issues and refuse to stay on medication that would allow them to function in regular society.

To solve hunger in America, just throwing food at it isn't the answer, with either issue.
[/quote]

I agree that just throwing food is never the answer. However, I've got a piece to say about people who remain homeless for prolonged periods--in the Bay Area they're referred to as the "hardcore homeless," and there are areas where there are a lot of them. There's a degree of choice involved, sure, but often it's either a choice that was made long ago and has now become a serious medical problem that they can't solve without help, or it's a choice that's made without the benefit of a stable mind.

Severe drug addiction started with a choice--although often that choice is made to get meager escape from soul-crushing circumstances. From one of my (now clean) students at a local homeless shelter, who had been homeless and suffered a variety of traumas and police injustices for much of his life: "For me, heroin was an alternative to suicide." A different shelter student told me that many people come into the shelter program clean and then because of the stresses of being homeless, of struggling with the incredible mess that is US social services (I know of people with debilitating injuries who've been waiting for over a year to get disability payments), and of suddenly sharing tight quarters with 70 other people--because of all this, they develop addictions to cope. She told me that she's seen people "get loaded" before they return to the shelter at night so it's easier to deal with being there.

Regardless of how serious addicts became addicted, they are now stuck with physiological dependence that many people need help to break. I don't think that because someone is in need of this type of medical care, I am justified in saying "you made a mistake and so I wash my hands of you." Yeah, there are some people who want to stay addicted, who want to keep filling their lives with drugs and nothing else--but there are more at least who I've come into contact with, who want to stop and need help.

As far as mental health, that's a trickier one for me: at what stage, if at any stage at all, can I look at a person whose mind works veryI apologize--I referenced this in a paper back in May and the article seems to be gone fromPoor Magazine's website.)

[DanieMarie]

Re: Hunger: How do we fight it?

I think there isn't enough support for mental health out there, even in countries with public health care. I know that Vancouver and Victoria (which have huge amounts of homeless people) could really cut their homelessness if Canada would include mental health into public health care.

[Dez]

Re: Hunger: How do we fight it?

Gwen,

I used to live out your way, in Fremont. Only moved here to Idaho less then a year ago!

I wasn't so active in the community when I lived in CA, and so I'm very glad to hear the opinion of someone who actually knows what they're talking about there. My BIL used to be a cop in Fremont, and so what I heard was often from a very unique perspective, but not always something I'd agree with.

While the resources are pretty good in Miami, they do have a long way to go there, too. I remember speaking to workers who were very frustrated, because they didn't have unlimited resources, and had to pick and choose. It was heartbreaking for them when someone that they'd worked very hard to help ended up right back where they started.

While I agree that no one should be thrown away as a "lost cause", the individual's choice comes strongly into play. That's why, like you mentioned, emergency care is assumed once someone is unconscious. We can't force people to get off drugs, or take medicine to help them not be paranoid or hear voices. And as much as I hate to say it, there are a lot of people out there who don't want to change anything...they just want people to help them scrape along. That's why so many programs have been forced to develop qualifiers, like a certain number of hours job hunting, etc, etc.


Getting back towards the topic of having enough food...I really wish that we had a way to encourage people to do more, rather then less, but I have no good solutions. With food stamps, for example--we got on food stamps when L was looking for a job, and because he was working odd construction jobs to try and pay our bills, we got an insane amount of food money for a family of 4--a little over $600/month. Now, he's working two jobs, and we just barely qualify for food stamps. Here in Idaho, though, it's based on total income, with nothing else really taken into account. Because we live by ourselves now, we have rent, utilities, car payment, etc, etc, that are all coming out of that, when before we were just trying to cover car payment and student loans. We just make ends meet as it is, when the assumption is that if we're making that much money, we'll be able to cover food. So we have less then $50/week for food right now, meaning that we would actually be better off if L was just working one job, or if I had another baby.

It honestly feels like our trying to work hard enough to make ends meet is punished.

[Gwen]

Re: Hunger: How do we fight it?

[quote author=Deseret link=topic=403.msg10360#msg10360 date=1288996732]
So we have less then $50/week for food right now, meaning that we would actually be better off if L was just working one job, or if I had another baby.

It honestly feels like our trying to work hard enough to make ends meet is punished.
[/quote]

This is not an uncommon story out here either. The cutoffs for many social services have a pretty unrealistic understanding of cost of living, and the codes are complicated enough and inflexible enough that situations like yours (in which you'd be better off if L worked less or you had another kid) happen frequently. Criminal Of Poverty is an amazing book by a socially conscious and intelligent woman who grew up with her mom living between her car and a series of crap apartments and cheap hotels. The two of them made textile art and sold it on the street, but had to watch how much income they appeared to have in order to be able to afford a roof (even a leaky one in a place with no running water) and food. They struggled with welfare because CA has "workfare," where you're required to work a certain number of hours at about half minimum wage to get aid. They hit a catch-22 wherein they made more money with their street art, but workfare took enough time away from more lucrative vending that they could never quite make ends meet whether or not they were receiving aid.

One of my students has moved out of the shelter (where she received 3 meals a day) and into transitional apartment housing (where she is responsible for her own meals). She received substantially more food stamps when she was in the shelter. Tell me that makes sense. >

[Dez]

Re: Hunger: How do we fight it?

You're right...that makes zero sense.

I know what you mean about the catch-22, too. I really want to start taking music students, however, after figuring out how to afford music and exercise books that I'd need my own copies of, teaching tools, etc, etc, if I had more then 4 students it would disqualify us from food stamps, unless I lied. I wouldn't break even, after the costs tied to teaching and the money lost from food stamps, until I had at least six students, and since this is a small town, it could take me a couple of years to have six students. That's assuming, too, that I could even get away with charging $40/month here, for four lessons and a monthly group lesson. I have no idea what other music teacher charge around here, and if that is too much, though. :-\

[ThorsSon]

Re: Hunger: How do we fight it?

I VERY STRONGLY support things like Give a Goat.

[Maythe]

Re: Hunger: How do we fight it?

I think globally it would help if the west quit messing up local agriculture markets by dumping their excess on the market at below local cost rates.

[Gwen]

Re: Hunger: How do we fight it?

On a global scale, I've heard pretty amazing things about microloans (and, when I got to visit India, met microloan recipients). It's the whole "teach a man to fish" principle, except the man already knows how to fish and so you offer to loan him a pole until he can buy his own and give yours back.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Hunger: How do we fight it?

[quote author=Gwen link=topic=403.msg11129#msg11129 date=1289297211]
On a global scale, I've heard pretty amazing things about microloans (and, when I got to visit India, met microloan recipients). It's the whole "teach a man to fish" principle, except the man already knows how to fish and so you offer to loan him a pole until he can buy his own and give yours back.
[/quote]

It's a good concept. You just have to make sure that the company giving the loan charges reasonable interest rates. It's not really kiva's (or other such organizations&#039 fault because they're not the ones actually dealing the loans, but a few offering loans on those sites charge interest rates that are too high.
On average, the rates are a little higher than your average western loan. Most -are- non-profit though and they have to have higher interest rates in order to operate, as they're not lending large amounts of money. The trick is to make sure it's something the borrower can pay back.
Not smashing it at all though. I lend on Kiva and think it's a great idea!

[CttCJim]

Re: Hunger: How do we fight it?

Best ever example of actual positive change contained herein: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA6YfnT4738

[MythManners]

Re: Hunger: How do we fight it?

I do not have the answer to that one.

What I did notice on a trip to Thailand, sometimes referred to as a Third World country, is that in three weeks time I saw only one beggar. It was explained to me that Thailand produces an abundance of food, so no one goes hungry.

WTF?????

The US produces so much food that our government pays farmers to destroy crops or not plant them at all. Our surplus crops are given, free of charge, to other nations, some of whom really, really hate us! Yet, we still have malnourished children in the United States of America.

I know, it is all so terribly complex that a simple mind like me cannot possible understand all the socio-economic factors involved.

I know! Eat the rich!

[DanieMarie]

Re: Hunger: How do we fight it?

Yeah some rich people can be selfish jerks.

However, others are really, really generous and are big on helping out their community.

I guess, in a nutshell, some people are part of the problem, while others in their peer group are part of the solution. Same with corporations.