Should prostitution be legalized?

[DanieMarie]

Re: Should prostitution be legalized?

Some interesting articles I've found regarding Germany and Europe:


Academic and government reports and studies:
http://www2.lse.ac.uk/newsAndMedia/n...afficking.aspx (I'd be really interested in reading this entire report)
http://www.stiftung-evz.de/fileadmin...in_germany.pdf (this is long, but really interesting. I haven't finished reading it yet so I can't give a full comment, but from what I've read it's suggested that the solution to human trafficking lies more in human rights laws. There's less about legal prostitution here, but when you read the document it's clear that forced sex work is still a problem and that legalized prostitution hasn't helped change that).
http://www.state.gov/j/tip/rls/tiprpt/2012/192367.htm (Backs up some of the suggested solutions above, and also suggests tougher punishments are needed. It also implies that the demand for sex work and sex tourism is high, and this is a problem. This backs up the findings in the report in the first link).

http://www.diw.de/sixcms/detail.php?id=diw_01.c.411054.en

News and Media Articles:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-387277.html (I actually remember this....there WAS a huge surge in ads during the world cup, and at one point a woman tried to "recruit" me to a brothel while I was at Zoo Station. It's been shot down at times, but I can attest that the market for sex tourism surged in 2005-2006, and there are lots of reports to back me up here).

http://www.spiegel.de/international/fischer-visa-scandal-battling-human-trafficking-in-germany-a-343160.html

http://www.thelocal.de/society/20101125-31417.html

Etc.

Anyway, I'm bringing up Germany both because I live here, and because it has legalized prostitution. Prostitution was legalized in order to help stop trafficking of sex workers, however, there seems to be a multitude of data on how this has not been the case. It's a complex issue and there are still a lot of things Germany does wrong. There seem to be other countries that are much more successful at battling trafficking without legalizing prostitution. There's also some suggestion that legalization expands the market for the sale of sex and therefore increases trafficking. At any rate, the solution seems to lie in stricter visas with more background checks, better resources and asylum for victims, and tougher prosecution of traffickers, whether prostitution is legal or not.

[Shahaku]

Re: Should prostitution be legalized?

I don't think legalizing prostitution would be a bad thing, if and only if the stigma of having sex with multiple partners in a short time period can be overcome. Since sex outside of a heterosexual, committed couple still carries a huge stigma the world over by the majority of people, I'm not sure that legalizing prostitution is the right thing, right now. When society reaches a point where sex is okay whenever you feel like it, however you feel like it (at least with willing parties), then prostitution wouldn't be such a problem, I don't think. But right now, there is still way too much stigma. I think that society is making slow progress on this, but... we're not there yet. And I don't think that places that have legalized prostitution have made more progress on overcoming this stigma than places that haven't so prostitution isn't jumpstarting that cause...

[DanieMarie]

Re: Should prostitution be legalized?

I'm not sure the stigma of having sex with multiple partners in a short time will or should ever be overcome. Even if you cast aside the religious issues around sex, we still live in the real world and there are still STDs floating around. Condoms stop a lot of them, but not all of them and there are always risks like condoms breaking and such. Having sex with someone you don't really know is always a bit of a risk, but if you do it on a continual basis, that risk increases.

It's really an issue when prostitution is legal as well. There are strict regulations here about testing, and when a girl catches something, she's off work until it's treated, and if it's incurable she's off work for good. There are also strict rules about using condoms and stuff. But even amongst those who follow the rules strictly, diseases happen. Not nearly as much as they would without condoms and testing, but they still happen. It's just a numbers game. If you're doing it that much, it's a lot more likely something is going to slip through.

And prostitution aside, the assumption is that in order for it to be acceptable, that kind of sexual activity has to be acceptable in our culture in general....and I just don't really think it should be.

[Ophidia]

Re: Should prostitution be legalized?

I'm not sure the stigma of having sex with multiple partners in a short time will or should ever be overcome. Even if you cast aside the religious issues around sex, we still live in the real world and there are still STDs floating around. Condoms stop a lot of them, but not all of them and there are always risks like condoms breaking and such. Having sex with someone you don't really know is always a bit of a risk, but if you do it on a continual basis, that risk increases.

It's really an issue when prostitution is legal as well. There are strict regulations here about testing, and when a girl catches something, she's off work until it's treated, and if it's incurable she's off work for good. There are also strict rules about using condoms and stuff. But even amongst those who follow the rules strictly, diseases happen. Not nearly as much as they would without condoms and testing, but they still happen. It's just a numbers game. If you're doing it that much, it's a lot more likely something is going to slip through.

Yes, there are some bad diseases out there. And yes, picking up an STD is gross for everyone involved. But for the most part, safe consentual sex isn't really all that dangerous for anyone. You have people who choose to risk various illnesses by smoking, you have people who choose to risk various illnesses by drinking, or by doing drugs or by enjoying extreme sports. You can't make the world 'safe' for everyone. Living isn't safe. From the minute you're born you begin dying - some people just get there faster. I don't believe in nanny laws, and if you're going after sex because it transmits diseases then you need to go after commercial food preparation and sales because you can get hepatitis that way, too.

And prostitution aside, the assumption is that in order for it to be acceptable, that kind of sexual activity has to be acceptable in our culture in general....and I just don't really think it should be.

Why not? Does it harm you personally if I have sex with five people today? I'm an adult, of legal age. If the five, or ten, people I have sex with today are all of age and consenting, who am I harming? Who are they harming?

[DanieMarie]

Re: Should prostitution be legalized?

I see your point. I still feel, however, that with stuff like aids in the world, it's better if we know our partners. I'm not trying to be moralist here. I actually really don't care if you have sex with 5 people in one day, but I think you should know who those people are and at least a bit about their sexual history.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Should prostitution be legalized?

I see your point. I still feel, however, that with stuff like aids in the world, it's better if we know our partners. I'm not trying to be moralist here. I actually really don't care if you have sex with 5 people in one day, but I think you should know who those people are and at least a bit about their sexual history.

You are right on the basis of personal responsibility, but personal responsibility isn't something that can be regulated. Or maybe I should say "should be regulated." Personal responsibility is something which - by definition - is personal.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Should prostitution be legalized?

You are right on the basis of personal responsibility, but personal responsibility isn't something that can be regulated. Or maybe I should say "should be regulated." Personal responsibility is something which - by definition - is personal.

You're right...I was just addressing the cultural changes necessary for something like legal prostitution to really be successful, and how I don't think that would be a positive change for our culture.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Should prostitution be legalized?

That being said, governments can regulate or prohibit certain activities in order to lower criminal activity. Sometimes, this might involve legalizing something instead of prohibiting it, but in this case unless the above cultural changes are in place (which I don't think is a good idea), legalizing it doesn't solve the problems that legalizing it sets out to.

[Aeran]

Re: Should prostitution be legalized?

It doesn't solve them entirely no, but those problems are always going to exist. You're never going to make some activities 100% safe and wholesome, but I think we're finally realizing as a society that we're never going to be able to entirely get rid of them either. You just have to accept them for what they are and adjust policy to make them the least harmful they can be, both to the individual and the society as a whole.

As for changing social attitudes, I think that's coming, every generation is less hung up about sex and less judgmental than the last, it's a waiting game.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Should prostitution be legalized?

I think it's not about being hung up about sex, it's being responsible and safe about it. Like I said, I really don't give a damn if you're sleeping with more than one person in a day, and I don't care about stuff like being in polygamous relationships or open marriages. I don't care if people are friends with benefits and I don't care if people choose to blog about their sex life or whatever. I just think it's important that we're honest about our sex lives, and that includes knowing our partners to some degree and being honest about our sexual histories and knowing about theirs as well. I don't think that's being judgmental or "hung up"...I think it's just common sense.

[Ophidia]

Re: Should prostitution be legalized?

I just think it's important that we're honest about our sex lives, and that includes knowing our partners to some degree and being honest about our sexual histories and knowing about theirs as well. I don't think that's being judgmental or "hung up"...I think it's just common sense.

I respect that. I just don't want the government up in my bedroom any more than it's already trying to be. Legalizing, decriminalizing or making prostitution more illegal shouldn't be allowed to bloat into private, non-commercial sexual interests.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Should prostitution be legalized?

I respect that. I just don't want the government up in my bedroom any more than it's already trying to be. Legalizing, decriminalizing or making prostitution more illegal shouldn't be allowed to bloat into private, non-commercial sexual interests.

No, I agree. I wasn't trying to say that at all. It was just brought up that in order for legalized prostitution to be accepted by most people, we need a culture where it's acceptable to sleep around with strangers and that we could get there someday. I just wanted to say that I don't think we should get there someday. I don't think that this should be brought about by any sort of law or regulation. I'll agree with Trudeau that "The government has no business in the bedrooms of the nation". I guess i'm just talking around myself because I don't want to sound like a prude. It's not the casual sex I have a problem with, it's just anonymity. I was talking about the culture surrounding prostitution rather than the laws surrounding it in these posts.

[Aeran]

Re: Should prostitution be legalized?

I think it's not about being hung up about sex, it's being responsible and safe about it. Like I said, I really don't give a damn if you're sleeping with more than one person in a day, and I don't care about stuff like being in polygamous relationships or open marriages. I don't care if people are friends with benefits and I don't care if people choose to blog about their sex life or whatever. I just think it's important that we're honest about our sex lives, and that includes knowing our partners to some degree and being honest about our sexual histories and knowing about theirs as well. I don't think that's being judgmental or "hung up"...I think it's just common sense.

I agree with you on that, but the flip side is that no matter how hard we try, we're never going to be able to make people be entirely responsible about sex. Just look at how many accidental pregnancies there are. And I'm pretty sure that for at least some of the guys who hire prostitutes (or even just have one night stands), being able to constantly sleep with random strangers they never see again is part of the appeal.

Just gotta accept that some people are always going to be stupid and reckless about sex, and go from there. Of course widespread education to get that number down would be a pretty good start.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Should prostitution be legalized?

I agree with you on that, but the flip side is that no matter how hard we try, we're never going to be able to make people be entirely responsible about sex. Just look at how many accidental pregnancies there are. And I'm pretty sure that for at least some of the guys who hire prostitutes (or even just have one night stands), being able to constantly sleep with random strangers they never see again is part of the appeal.

Just gotta accept that some people are always going to be stupid and reckless about sex, and go from there. Of course widespread education to get that number down would be a pretty good start.

Yeah totally agree. I think educating ourselves about sex is part of not being hung up on it. I think we should try to promote responsible behaviour as much as possible.

[Maria de Luna]

Re: Should prostitution be legalized?

I think some of the sex attitudes, at least in the US are even less conducive to making legal prostitution a reality. When a 16 year old girl does not know how she got pregnant because she did not know that certain positions did not in fact prevent pregnancy, and that birth control is for godless sluts, and what 16 year old girl wants to be one of those? Before this could be considered for the whole country quite a few attitudes regarding sexual education and sex in general would have to change. Not nessecarily in an annonymous sex is totally OK sort of way, because I do believe in the screening of clients, (the prostitute should be allowed to say NO, and still defend herself from unwanted sex.) The issues of human trafficking extend beyond prostitution, but as long as there is no legal way for a woman to go to the police and say "I am a forced prostitute, help me without throwing me in jail."