Goodbye, Pope Palpatine...

[ThorsSon]

Re: Goodbye, Pope Palpatine...

I'm still updating my resume.

[Denarius]

Re: Goodbye, Pope Palpatine...

^That would make a good sitcom.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Goodbye, Pope Palpatine...

Oh, the lol...I wonder what they thought of John Paul II?


Anyhoo...I thought this was an actually interesting and thoughtful post on the subject from a Pagan blogger.

(so unlike us, lol)

Missed this before, the author plays this as a potential crisis of faith. I wouldn't. Yes, the Pope is Vicar of Christ but he's also human, a point that Catholics are generally quite aware of. Having one step down is certainly unusual but I'll be deeply surprised if it's cataclysmic for the institution as a whole. They've endured worse surprises and they'll endure this one pretty well. Only way I expect things to be overly complicated is if the man starts publicly disagreeing with his successor and that might be difficult if he intends to stay in the Vatican.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Goodbye, Pope Palpatine...

the resignation is going to cause massive problems for the Catholic Church, like it or not. The last time a pope resigned, it was in order to end the great schism where there were two popes at the same time. What this Pope has done is to create a situation where the new Pope and the old one are going to coexist in some shape or form. This could present a huge number of problems, religious and practical.

It was always the tradition to choose a relatively old man as Pope because that way he would not have a very long papacy. Pope Benedict is old, although not ancient. There is some talk of him retiring in order to write, which rather rules out mental decline. And if he is in a great deal of pain, well I'm sorry, but isn't his church the one that insists there is great virtue in suffering?

I suspect he has jumped ship before he can suffer the same fate as John Paul I. in a way I feel rather sorry for the Catholic faithful. They put great store by what the holy Father says and does, they even accept his infallibility when he speaks ex cathedra... now he's basically turned his back on them.

If I were a Catholic, I would be bloody annoyed.

[Maria de Luna]

Re: Goodbye, Pope Palpatine...

This. As Pope, Benedict can easily arrange to have diplomatic immunity anywhere outside Vatican City. Within Vatican City, I'm not sure there's anything with the authority to arrest him. Granted, invading Vatican City to get him isn't exactly hard. At least, it isn't hard if Italy allows you passage. Italy probably will object. The real problem is the backlash from everywhere. There's a secret to invading small, relatively helpless nations. Pick the ones that no one likes enough to do more than shout foul language. Also relatively helpless (i.e. US and friends vs Iraq, take two) is very different from actually helpless (i.e. just about anyone with a professional military vs Vatican City). You want to be invading the relatively helpless.

While the stuff in the article seems a wee bit fishy to me, in theory it is possible that another government and private citizens for that matter could reach out and touch this man legally if he ends up living anywhere other than the Vatican after un-pope-ifying himself. Vatican law has no provisions for a situation like this, so if he intends to retire to a quite place in the country somewhere, he needs to work out a deal with said country so as not to be extridited or imprisoned. There were several local articles stating this possibility when the news was first announced. Whether or not there has been an actual threat is another story, if one intended to prosecute, one would be better off not tipping off the person while they can still make deals with others...

[MaskedOne]

Re: Goodbye, Pope Palpatine...

Forgive my ignorance... how does the Head of State (which the Pope is, until the end of the month) of a sovereign nation (which Vatican City is), beg the Head of State, of ANOTHER nation, for immunity and protection? Why not give it to himself? (especially if he truly is God's emissary)

Something about that article seems a little off, to me.

I don't know if it is true, but, it feels a little "conspiracy theory-y" to me.

If all of this is true, it seems that it would behove the Pope to maintain his position as Grand Poobah of Vatican City, rather than risking the head of another country denying his protection. Whatever "anonymous European government", the article speaks of, that is threatening to put out a warrant of arrest, will only be given easier access to Mr. Ratzinger as a German citizen, than they would have as the dictator of Vatican City.

As Joseph Ratzinger, the police show up at his door, knock, present warrant and take him into custody. As Pope Benedict XVI, they must invade a sovereign state and commit, essentially, an act of war.

Again, I'm not saying that the claim of the article is not true. What I am saying is, if the article IS true, Pope Palpatine's actions make no sense... but, then, since when did the Catholic Church make sense?

This. As Pope, Benedict can easily arrange to have diplomatic immunity anywhere outside Vatican City. Within Vatican City, I'm not sure there's anything with the authority to arrest him. Granted, invading Vatican City to get him isn't exactly hard. At least, it isn't hard if Italy allows you passage. Italy probably will object. The real problem is the backlash from everywhere. There's a secret to invading small, relatively helpless nations. Pick the ones that no one likes enough to do more than shout foul language. Also relatively helpless (i.e. US and friends vs Iraq, take two) is very different from actually helpless (i.e. just about anyone with a professional military vs Vatican City). You want to be invading the relatively helpless.

[thalassa]

Re: Goodbye, Pope Palpatine...

Forgive my ignorance... how does the Head of State (which the Pope is, until the end of the month) of a sovereign nation (which Vatican City is), beg the Head of State, of ANOTHER nation, for immunity and protection? Why not give it to himself? (especially if he truly is God's emissary)

Something about that article seems a little off, to me.

I don't know if it is true, but, it feels a little "conspiracy theory-y" to me.

I usually take stuff from that site with a grain of salt...sometimes its right, sometimes its sort of right, but just as often its pretty wrong.

[ThorsSon]

Re: Goodbye, Pope Palpatine...

Forgive my ignorance... how does the Head of State (which the Pope is, until the end of the month) of a sovereign nation (which Vatican City is), beg the Head of State, of ANOTHER nation, for immunity and protection? Why not give it to himself? (especially if he truly is God's emissary)

Something about that article seems a little off, to me.

I don't know if it is true, but, it feels a little "conspiracy theory-y" to me.

If all of this is true, it seems that it would behove the Pope to maintain his position as Grand Poobah of Vatican City, rather than risking the head of another country denying his protection. Whatever "anonymous European government", the article speaks of, that is threatening to put out a warrant of arrest, will only be given easier access to Mr. Ratzinger as a German citizen, than they would have as the dictator of Vatican City.

As Joseph Ratzinger, the police show up at his door, knock, present warrant and take him into custody. As Pope Benedict XVI, they must invade a sovereign state and commit, essentially, an act of war.

Again, I'm not saying that the claim of the article is not true. What I am saying is, if the article IS true, Pope Palpatine's actions make no sense... but, then, since when did the Catholic Church make sense?

[volcaniclastic]

Re: Goodbye, Pope Palpatine...

"It seems that with his resignation announced, the Pope, whose given name is Joseph Ratzinger, has a meeting with the Italian President, Giorgio Napolitano on February 23 to beg for immunity against prosecution for allegations of child sex crimes. Apparently, this hastily arranged meeting, and likely the resignation as well, are the result of a supposed note received by the Vatican from an undisclosed European government that stated that there are plans to issue a warrant for the Pope’s arrest. This letter was allegedly received on February 4, and Ratzinger resigned a week later. Now, there’s no way people can ignore how fishy this is. "


http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/02...ore-resigning/

Catholic priests and children. What's up with that, anyhow?

[Dez]

Re: Goodbye, Pope Palpatine...

"It seems that with his resignation announced, the Pope, whose given name is Joseph Ratzinger, has a meeting with the Italian President, Giorgio Napolitano on February 23 to beg for immunity against prosecution for allegations of child sex crimes. Apparently, this hastily arranged meeting, and likely the resignation as well, are the result of a supposed note received by the Vatican from an undisclosed European government that stated that there are plans to issue a warrant for the Pope’s arrest. This letter was allegedly received on February 4, and Ratzinger resigned a week later. Now, there’s no way people can ignore how fishy this is. "

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/02/14/pope-allegedly-sought-immunity-for-abuse-crimes-just-before-resigning/

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: Goodbye, Pope Palpatine...

Well, there are a handful of disturbing pieces of fiction about using the 25th for causes never intended but trying it without just cause isn't something that should be pulled unless one just needs to control things for a few days. The President can contest the issue and Congress can overturn the decision. Barring cataclysm, they're supposed to handle such conflicts pretty quickly.

Star trek (original series) "Patterns Of Force". Gene hit the nail on the head once again. This is what I'm talkin' about. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattern..._(TOS_episode)

[ThorsSon]

Re: Goodbye, Pope Palpatine...

I believe the health thing...I just think that its happening now to get someone like him into play for longer than he could have held out.

I'm with you, here. I really, highly, doubt that it has anything to do with any of the various controversies.

I think I might start updating my resume, though.

[thalassa]

Re: Goodbye, Pope Palpatine...

I believe the health thing...I just think that its happening now to get someone like him into play for longer than he could have held out.

[ThorsSon]

Re: Goodbye, Pope Palpatine...

my bet is that he heard that they were casting for the new Star Wars movie.

[Dez]

Re: Goodbye, Pope Palpatine...

My money's still on it being tied to the sexual abuse crises. That shit just keeps getting bigger every year...so much covered up in so many major diocese.

Wondering when the investigations will spread to other ultra-conservative groups secretive about their finances and power structure.