How do I tell the Difference?

[Lilium of the Valley]

Merry Meet Everyone!!
I am new to this Forum..and new to this sort of religion, so I have allot of questions...
One of them is how to tell the difference between white magic and black/dark magic?!?!
during my research in books and especially online i come across so much stuff, some of it
a blind person could tell it is bad and some of it a blind person could tell its good....but there are
some things where you just aren't sure....especially when it comes to the spells...its like a grey area in between...
and i would never want to do anything bad or anything that would disrespect or anger the lord and the lady.
ive found several spells/ceremonies/information from many different pagan religions (folk magic, green witchcraft,
voodoo, hoodoo, wicca, druidry, animism, shamanism etc etc etc)
can you practice a little of everything?? how does it all work? and which ones are considered bad??? lol if that makes any sense.
i appreciate any help and opinions i can get!!
with warm greetings!

[Kahlenda]

Re: How do I tell the Difference?

First of all , welcome to a "brave new world" your in for some amazing times ahead

Ok good magic bad magick. everyone has a differing opinion on it, so i can only tell you mine and im sure you'll find people on here that will disagree with me and tell you something else, the best advice i can give you is to, read up on things to think about it and make yor own decisions.

The way i see it there is no good magick, and there is no bad magick. there is just the universe and the power to change and affect things (magicks). How a Person chooses to use that power makes it good or bad, BUT, only according to each persons relative views. for example

if you were to cast a spell to bring you some extra money.

some people will say its bad because its for personal gain
Some people will say its bad because it can have serious concequences (like someone dying and leaving you the money)
Other will say its grey and is bad if done for yourself but good if done for someone else.
then other people will say that cast a spell for (or on) someone else with out their knowledge is bad, but for a money if you do it cause they ask you to it will turn into bad magick for them because its using magic for greed.

(and thats just a few of the possible opinions)

Annoying trying to work it out isnt it

Like i said best advice untill you fall into a specific religeon that has specified ethics and morals, if your practising witchcraft do as you see fit, by you own ethics and morals and beliefs.


i hope this helped.

[Lilium of the Valley]

Re: How do I tell the Difference?

first off thank you so much for your insight on this matter!!! i agree it is completely and utterly confusing to figure out.
like your example showed, there are just so many loopholes to cover, to watch out for....what to do and not to...the outcome...
i think it will get easier once i find my "box" that i feel comfortable in.
with warm greetings!

[wisp]

Re: How do I tell the Difference?

The beauty of paganism is you forge your own path. Some choose to do this by finding a specific group/belief set that they ascribe to and follow their tenets. Others choose to take bits and pieces and put them together. And still others choose a belief set but still draw from other sources. The idea here is that you do what works for you (hopefully a way that is safe and healthy as well).
As Kahlenda said, good and bad are very relative. A general rule of thumb that seems to (usually) be a common link is "do no harm" but the term 'harm' is also subjective as not everything that is painful is harmful. (Sometimes breaking off a relationship, though painful, is healthier as an example). Go with your gut on this one as well, or, since you say Lord and Lady, as your dieties/guides what their definition might be.

[Lilium of the Valley]

Re: How do I tell the Difference?

thanks allot for your input!! it's good to know that it is okay to educate myself, find bits and
pieces and create my own....i have a hard time finding a "box" i fit in, with pretty much everything.
this is what i love about paganism and solitary practice....the freedom....and not being bound to anything.

[PsykhikosAnarchosNautikos]

Re: How do I tell the Difference?

White magic is not necessarily good magic and black magic is not necessarily bad and like Kahlenda said, magic is magic, it is the intention that sets it.

From my studies and practices with magic (I've practiced and studied black and white) I see white magic as magic that is in league with working with positive spirits, healing energies, union with God/dess and works of devotion. Black magic is more along the lines of working with darker spirits, ego gratification, desire attainment, but most importantly, what I practice in terms of black magic, is evolution of my self and psyche so I can stand equal or greater than my gods, but never union in the sense of obliteration of my self consciousness.

The simplest way that I term white magic and black magic (and Right-Hand Path and Left-Hand Path) is white magic is always beneficial and in service of others no matter what ('an' it harm none'). Black magic can be beneficial and serve others, but it is ultimately about autonomy ('belief is a tool'). This means you are your guiding force. You can have faith and work with beneficial spirits but it is faith through years of questioning and experimentation, where as white magic faith is obedience for obedience sake. That's just my interpretation and helps me make sense of it, although magic is just magic and your path is your path for you to forge as wisp wisely said.

[Denarius]

Re: How do I tell the Difference?

I don't believe that things can be intrinsically good or evil, "good" and "evil" are social constructs that are really only applicable to beings possessing moral agency and the actions thereof.

I've actually had several arguments about this, although that was more about the Force and the nature of the dark side. That discussion sort of ended once we got to the point of whether the Force possessed agency or not.

So it basically comes down to two very important questions. One: Does magic, if it exists, possess agency? Two: Are the unforeseen consequences and ramifications of magic use the moral responsibility of the magic user?

In other words, before you ask what magic is good and what magic is evil you need to know if magic is capable of being good or evil. And, more fundamentally, whether intent or consequence is the defining factor of morality.

It also brings to mind the folly of messing with things that are not well understood, like the radium craze of the early twentieth century.

I seem to have lost track of the point I was making. At any rate, it's generally a good sign that you're thinking about this. You mention "the lord and the lady," if you do not wish to offend them then perhaps it is with them that you should be having this conversation.

[MaskedOne]

Re: How do I tell the Difference?

Lilium, till you've got a couple more posts to your name, our system will occasionally try and snack on your posts. If you've posted something and can't find it then ask one of the staff to check for it. We can free the post in question from our slightly overzealous filtering system. I've freed a few of your posts and removed several that looked like copies of the ones set free.

Welcome to PF!

[Willow]

Re: How do I tell the Difference?

Welcome.

[Louisvillian]

Re: How do I tell the Difference?

One of them is how to tell the difference between white magic and black/dark magic?!?!

In my opinion, it's a silly false dichotomy. There is no "white" and "black" for the same reason that is no objective "good" and "evil" with which to measure them. They're all human conceptions of how people should behave. The gods and magic do not bend so easily to human definitions.

can you practice a little of everything??

Yes, and no. You can practise a little of everything in the sense that you're drawing from multiple sources and influences.
You can't really practise, say, a Celtic Druidic religion and have facets of Native American religion in there. They're entirely different ways of viewing the world and draw from entirely different cultures and peoples. It's not "wrong" or "impossible", but it takes a lot of mental gymnastics to make it make sense. And to put it simply, cognitive dissonance can really hurt your flow.

This isn't to say that you couldn't practise more than one religion, and conduct different kinds of rituals for different gods or spirits that derive from different cultures. But it's not exactly easy and takes a lot of work and thought, and a lot of self-organisation to keep them straight.

[Lilium of the Valley]

Re: How do I tell the Difference?

wow lots of answers and very wise opinions, they all have in common that many people of man different religions think that there really is no "good" and "evil"
that one cannot simply throw magic into one of those boxes. i have read this allot now, also in books and on webpages. This is what I wanted to believe,
yet was a little "afraid", more cautious of doing something wrong.
Thank You all so much for the insight!! And thanks for the welcomes

[Corvus]

Re: How do I tell the Difference?

It's nice to meet you. I'm not going to talk about the nature of magic, since it seems that others have expressed opinions similar to my own already but I will say that you should take your sources with a grain of salt. Not everything in books and on the internet concerning magic should be trusted. Go with what you consider most correct. Before researching you should establish what you already believe about the nature of the world, nature, the divine and magic and then continually add and revise things as you find more information and philosophies that you agree with. It's a constantly evolving process.

[Kahlenda]

Re: How do I tell the Difference?

It's nice to meet you. I'm not going to talk about the nature of magic, since it seems that others have expressed opinions similar to my own already but I will say that you should take your sources with a grain of salt. Not everything in books and on the internet concerning magic should be trusted. Go with what you consider most correct. Before researching you should establish what you already believe about the nature of the world, nature, the divine and magic and then continually add and revise things as you find more information and philosophies that you agree with. It's a constantly evolving process.

I agree whole heartedly, really good piece of info corvus. the world life and the universe never stands still so neither can our beliefs they must be a "moving rock within the chaotic rapids that are life"

[Lilium of the Valley]

Re: How do I tell the Difference?

It's nice to meet you. I'm not going to talk about the nature of magic, since it seems that others have expressed opinions similar to my own already but I will say that you should take your sources with a grain of salt. Not everything in books and on the internet concerning magic should be trusted. Go with what you consider most correct. Before researching you should establish what you already believe about the nature of the world, nature, the divine and magic and then continually add and revise things as you find more information and philosophies that you agree with. It's a constantly evolving process.

Nice meeting you too! i totally agree. I had already made up my mind about those things before researching anything that had to do with Paganism/Witchcraft etc etc...I've always had the same opinion just never fit in with the rest of my family (Christians and Catholics, what a mix eh lol)...as a teenager literally thought i was the only person who was like me...then i found Wicca...and then paganism in general...and then the rest.
if i wouldn't have already had a view of nature, divines, life/death, reincarnation etc. i would now be majorly confused and overwhelmed.

[Shawn Cameron]

Re: How do I tell the Difference?

It's nice to meet you. I'm not going to talk about the nature of magic, since it seems that others have expressed opinions similar to my own already but I will say that you should take your sources with a grain of salt. Not everything in books and on the internet concerning magic should be trusted. Go with what you consider most correct. Before researching you should establish what you already believe about the nature of the world, nature, the divine and magic and then continually add and revise things as you find more information and philosophies that you agree with. It's a constantly evolving process.

^ Very good advice and the most important to remember. Ethics are important but they are also personal, forged from experience and meditation. It is a common stage in most people converting from monotheistic faiths, (which are very black/white evil/good ect.) to try and apply the same principles to other religions. (Like why so many consider Loki “evil” despite the depth of his character, our gods are not one dimensional.)

My personal opinion on magick is that it is a tool, and because I work best with analogies I compare it to a sword. A sword can be used to defend, attack, or even cut fire wood, it is all about the wielder not the blade, some may be designed to be better at one then another but they can all be whichever the swordsman wants/needs.