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Americans: sometimes it seems we are spoiled children

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    #16
    Re: Americans: sometimes it seems we are spoiled children

    I do think a lot of people are spoiled rotten. I have to disagree with ya anunitu however about growing up poor, simply because of my own experiences; although I may be wrong, but here's my two cents on the matter.

    I grew up rich, and I can definitely say it set a goal in my mind for what I want "someday" - sort of a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow I'm chasing fiscally, I guess. I remember being the girl who bought name brand stuff, spoiled herself with expensive bath and body products, thought "working out" meant going to a special gym or having expensive workout equipment or a special diet program, bought high-end products or just things on a whim sometimes, and so on and so forth. I remember never wanting for anything, with nice clothes and a kitchen stuffed with food and fancy cookwares. There's a lot more to that, of course; with all the terrible things my family was capable of, I did go hungry, sometimes being forced to starve for days on end, so in a way it was more of a dystopian brand of being rich - but the fact remains that when things were good, they were very good and prosperous, and despite the bad environment I believe I was very spoiled materially speaking.

    I was that girl for a while, but when things got really bad with family-life and I found myself booted out at 16 for refusing participation in a cult, everything I had was stripped away. At 18 I was battling homelessness, found myself in HUD housing in the middle of the most dangerous part of the ghetto hearing gunshots and some dude who'd come out of his house to scream at the top of his lungs at 3am every night. Suffice to say I went from rich to very poor wondering whether I'd get my next meal or whether I'd be on the streets in one of the most crime-ridden areas of the entire DFW Metroplex in Texas (trust me, that's saying something). From there I had to crawl my ass back from the brink, no thanks to my family members who have since made certain that every dollar legally meant for me was embezzled to themselves under the table (and before you ask, no I have not tried to pursue legal action against their theft - I'm all too aware that they can afford lawyers who'd stomp me right into the ground if I dared to try). They currently live in million dollar homes, drive brand new cars, kick back in their in-home personal theater to sip expensive wines while stroking their custom-bred pedigree dog - and they can still look me in the eye and tell me they're lacking in money, while I'm wearing threadbare clothes I've stitched up myself to make them last another year if I can. But I don't lack quite like I once did. I have food, I have an apartment of my very own, a nice kitty named Nocturnus, my own car, and even a knockoff phone with a QWERTY keyboard; it may not be fancy, it may be really stressful some months and my budget may be tighter than a preacher's butt, but I'm okay.

    Looking back on everything, I don't regret any of it, and I'm very glad I have been able to experience what it is to be both rich and poor, to have everything and nothing. I daresay most Americans have not known the kind of hunger that can potentially kill you, but having known it, I feel better for it; it humbles you, it makes you think about life differently. I think having seen both ends of the spectrum I can learn from both and I'm better armed to choose my path in life. Someday I do want to be able to afford anything I might want and not just anything I need - it's a far-off goal that I'd be okay with not ever attaining but I also feel no guilt in reaching for. I'd like to do it better than my family did, if I ever get there; I'd like to spend it on experiences, not stuff, and stay far away from the sheer evil of high class society. I'd like to use it to explore and learn and make memories, not for status. Oh well, I figure a girl can dream anyway.

    Anyway, overall I agree, many Americans are spoiled rotten and have their priorities completely wrong. I would add a lot of us are lazy as hell - my generation in particular has countless numbers of losers who have just given up because the economy didn't instantly provide them with jobs, and now mooch off their parents shamelessly thinking they're totally entitled to it. 30-somethings living in Mommy's basement surrounded by pizza boxes is now a nightmarish reality that's all too common, and it makes me sick. I was basically living adult life at 16, so people like that really grind my nerves raw!!

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      #17
      Re: Americans: sometimes it seems we are spoiled children

      Originally posted by anunitu View Post
      In a strange way I am grateful that I grew up poor,I know how to budget right down to the penny. I manage to cover thing,and My priority is always in this order..Rent,food,bills(phone,utilities) then and only then do I know if I have some "Extra" cash for saving for that thing I have been thinking about getting for a year.

      I get it,people want things NOW,and it seems have never had to wait to have them.
      I'm in the sector that pays all their utilities & hopes they have grocery money left over, lol.
      The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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        #18
        Re: Americans: sometimes it seems we are spoiled children

        Originally posted by RainbowDemonic View Post
        Anyway, overall I agree, many Americans are spoiled rotten and have their priorities completely wrong. I would add a lot of us are lazy as hell - my generation in particular has countless numbers of losers who have just given up because the economy didn't instantly provide them with jobs, and now mooch off their parents shamelessly thinking they're totally entitled to it. 30-somethings living in Mommy's basement surrounded by pizza boxes is now a nightmarish reality that's all too common, and it makes me sick. I was basically living adult life at 16, so people like that really grind my nerves raw!!
        This. When I finished school, no one I knew stayed with their parents more than a couple of months. You got a job, got an apartment by yourself or with friends, etc. No one WANTED to stay with their parents, even if they had a great relationship. It was time to leave the nest. Part of this issue today is economic. We could have a job at the mall and be able to pay rent - you can't, today. But how did that happen? Slowly, and with much passivity.
        sigpic
        Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

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          #19
          Re: Americans: sometimes it seems we are spoiled children

          Originally posted by Hawkfeathers View Post
          This. When I finished school, no one I knew stayed with their parents more than a couple of months. You got a job, got an apartment by yourself or with friends, etc. No one WANTED to stay with their parents, even if they had a great relationship. It was time to leave the nest. Part of this issue today is economic. We could have a job at the mall and be able to pay rent - you can't, today. But how did that happen? Slowly, and with much passivity.
          I stayed until I was 21. I meant to leave sooner, but my mom went through a breakup with a commonlaw partner during my late teens, and could no longer afford the house we lived in. I stayed behind to help out with the bills so she could still keep her nice house.


          Mostly art.

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            #20
            Re: Americans: sometimes it seems we are spoiled children

            Originally posted by volcaniclastic View Post
            I stayed until I was 21. I meant to leave sooner, but my mom went through a breakup with a commonlaw partner during my late teens, and could no longer afford the house we lived in. I stayed behind to help out with the bills so she could still keep her nice house.
            Today more people are in their 30's when they leave. Or, they come back - that was never on the table for me, it would have been the ultimate failure (not to my parents, but to me.)

            But as to the rest of being "spoiled" - I have a friend who once said "We're so broke this month that we had to dip into our savings" - I laughed and said if you have savings, you're not broke, silly!
            sigpic
            Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

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              #21
              Re: Americans: sometimes it seems we are spoiled children

              Originally posted by Hawkfeathers View Post
              Today more people are in their 30's when they leave. Or, they come back - that was never on the table for me, it would have been the ultimate failure (not to my parents, but to me.)

              But as to the rest of being "spoiled" - I have a friend who once said "We're so broke this month that we had to dip into our savings" - I laughed and said if you have savings, you're not broke, silly!
              Absolutely, I can't even imagine being home that long! I'm the stubborn type who prefers to never take handouts and carve my own way, I would've died of embarrassment having to just stay at home and mooch, good lord! The very idea that they just sort of give up on jobs, kick back and relax at Mommy and Daddy's house really makes me crazy - especially when their parents have compromised health or whatnot; I mean their parents worked hard for that money and hoped to one day reap rewards, but now they're stuck blowing it on lazy adult children who are busy playing World of Warcraft and watching My Little Pony. Really sad!

              But anyway, I agree - if you have savings at all you ain't broke! I hate hearing the "dip into savings" thing - makes me roll my eyes every time. I think I'm lucky any given month to save a bit back, and it gets spent the next month on something I've had to put off too long for bills and stuff. My budget priorities are: "Need", "Really need", "Desperately need" and "Might actually kill me if I don't do it", with an ever-present waiting list of "need" or "really need" deferring to bills and "desperate"/"might-kill-me" items, LOL

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                #22
                Re: Americans: sometimes it seems we are spoiled children

                Originally posted by RainbowDemonic View Post
                Absolutely, I can't even imagine being home that long! I'm the stubborn type who prefers to never take handouts and carve my own way, I would've died of embarrassment having to just stay at home and mooch, good lord! The very idea that they just sort of give up on jobs, kick back and relax at Mommy and Daddy's house really makes me crazy - especially when their parents have compromised health or whatnot; I mean their parents worked hard for that money and hoped to one day reap rewards, but now they're stuck blowing it on lazy adult children who are busy playing World of Warcraft and watching My Little Pony. Really sad!

                But anyway, I agree - if you have savings at all you ain't broke! I hate hearing the "dip into savings" thing - makes me roll my eyes every time. I think I'm lucky any given month to save a bit back, and it gets spent the next month on something I've had to put off too long for bills and stuff. My budget priorities are: "Need", "Really need", "Desperately need" and "Might actually kill me if I don't do it", with an ever-present waiting list of "need" or "really need" deferring to bills and "desperate"/"might-kill-me" items, LOL
                In my "lean years" period after my divorce, my parents never understood why I didn't have money. They figured if I had a job I should have substantial savings. Of course, my mother never got her head out of the 1950's when rent was $25./month! LOL

                I do feel for new grads today - it's not really a choice to go get a job like it was for us. Sometimes we had to settle, or didn't get the job we wanted, but we could almost always find SOMETHING and pretty much keep a roof over our heads. A little bit before I was old enough to be on my own (which is probably a very good thing) - the REAL hippies were playing guitars for loose change on streetcorners and able to keep apartments in Greenwich Village and all those cool places. I'm glad I was at least old enough to see & remember that time. I think it was the last of real freedom/social change, etc. Does anyone remember the tv show "Alice", about a middle aged waitress who takes off across the country with her son, and finds a job at Mel's Diner, and a little apartment? That was entirely possible to do at that time. A waitress. Try that today....
                sigpic
                Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

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                  #23
                  Re: Americans: sometimes it seems we are spoiled children

                  Originally posted by RainbowDemonic View Post
                  But anyway, I agree - if you have savings at all you ain't broke!
                  I actually disagree with you, here. I have been flat broke for months, living off whatever I can find on sale, and struggling to find work (I have been unemployed 9 months now), and getting just enough money from the gov't for rent, my phone, and some food.

                  I have savings. I had them locked away in an account, where I kept them, because I knew if my unemployment money stopped before I found work, I would end up homeless. And I did run out of unemployment insurance before I found work. So I went to the bank, and took out that money, and now that's what I'm living on to cushion me until work starts (thank god I found work finally)

                  I've been broke as shit. I only have internet because my roommate pays for it. I was selling my things for a while there, just to get grocery money.

                  Having emergency money locked away didn't make me less broke. If I had used it monthly, it wouldn't be here now, and I would be out of food, out of money, and out of a home.


                  Mostly art.

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                    #24
                    Re: Americans: sometimes it seems we are spoiled children

                    I'm only 17. I cannot imagine not having something to eat and I know that there's many people worst off than me. There was a time when I was 10 or 11 (I think) we had no heat or electricity for a few months and I just remember being happy because the electric lights hurt my eyes. My dad made sure i had something to eat, along with his freeloading girlfriend at the time. Sure there were fancy new toys I wanted, what kid doesn't want new things, but I was pretty happy with what I had. I'm damn privileged. I understand that.

                    Since then we've done a lot better so we've never had a no electricity or heat period since but when my dad decided to remarry and I look at my future step brothers, they disgust me. They both have iphones and laptops and every game station they want (unless theyve since sold it). After mom goes shopping they say oh I dont want to eat that shit and get money from her to go get fast food. If she dosen't give them money then they go to their grandparents who give them money then yell at mom. She puts herself into debt to give them the shit they want and try her best, with no support from their deadbeat father, and they don't appreciate it. My brother and I get lunch and breakfast for .25 each at school and yet he still get's $30-60 a month for "lunch money" which he spends on cookies and juices and those sugary things you can buy for extra at school or he just pockets it. This dosen't even include the allowance they get from their grandparents. Every other day I hear can I get some money mom? What for? Oh I need it for food, or cigarettes or beer.When they don't get it they sob story to grandpa and grandma who scream at mom like shes depriving them or something. I sit here and think cant you be satisfied?
                    Circe

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                      #25
                      Re: Americans: sometimes it seems we are spoiled children

                      I am happy I learned how to budget. I'm pretty good at it too. I went through a phase where I bought things to relieve stress, and I'm kicking myself a bit for it because I could have saved a lot more money and had a nice little safety net, but I guess we all learn.

                      Now I'm kind of in a weird reverse situation in that I don't want anything, and I'm kind of horrified by the sheer amount of stuff in my house. How and why did I buy all of this? What's the point?

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                        #26
                        Re: Americans: sometimes it seems we are spoiled children

                        It's not just america, trust me!
                        There is something pagan in me that I cannot shake off. In short, I deny nothing, but doubt everything. - Lord Byron

                        Come forth into the light of things, let nature be your teacher. -
                        William Wordsworth

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                          #27
                          Re: Americans: sometimes it seems we are spoiled children

                          One thing I've never understood fully about people 'not leaving the nest' is why it's such a bad thing. In the US, everyone is extremely independent, so to us we make fun of 'basement apes' and 'late-life bloomers', but in many countries, you don't leave the nest until you're married (especially if you're a woman) - and then your parents move in with you so you can take care of them. It's part of why so many American single parents struggle with childcare. In multi-generational homes, there's always a babysitter around, lol. My in-laws are struggling with this right now - when they were kids in Hungary, even during the wars, their grandparents & great-grandparents always had help in their declining years, so that's what they were expecting to happen once they got old. My more traditional Mexican & Filipino co-workers don't believe in assisted living for their elderly relatives, that's strictly a 'white people' thing.

                          Of course, if I had to live w/my mother-in-law, I'd be in prison for multiple homicides, but that's beside the point.
                          The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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                            #28
                            Re: Americans: sometimes it seems we are spoiled children

                            Yeah that's very true, especially in southern Europe. In northern Europe most people tend to leave the nest, but that's mostly because it's common to go to university in a different city (even if your city has a good university). Of course, that's not true for everyone...I know a few Berliners who studied here. But due to that culture, people move out. Rents used to be really affordable in Berlin as well, and there is a lot of support for students all over the country.

                            That being said, if you live at home, you're not a loser. Lots of people go home for a bit after their studies while they look for a job. It's fairly normal here.

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                              #29
                              Re: Americans: sometimes it seems we are spoiled children

                              On my mother's side: her father died when she was a teenager so she dropped out of college and worked, while still living with her mother. They owned a 2 family house. When my parents got married, Dad moved in there, but my grandmother had a separate apartment in the house. That was pretty common in city life back then. There are still lots of families who do that kind of thing, or take in a grandparent later in life.

                              The issue I have is with mooching, non-contributing, perpetual children with no desire for independence.
                              sigpic
                              Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

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                                #30
                                Re: Americans: sometimes it seems we are spoiled children

                                Originally posted by Hawkfeathers View Post
                                The issue I have is with mooching, non-contributing, perpetual children with no desire for independence.
                                Yes, exactly. Living at home with parents is fine when you're still a responsible adult, and I certainly respect adult children who move in with their parents in order to help them. And of course otherwise-responsible adults having to admit they need help and spend time living at their parents' house until they get on their feet again is fine too; they're doing the best they can in a cruel economy. The problem is that in my generation there are a lot of real true losers who are doing it out of laziness and an inability (or unwillingness) to cope with life as an adult and would be all too happy to stay at their parents' house mooching forever and never having to grow past a teenage mindset. It's a very disturbing trend to see.

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