Animals and their Magickal Properties and meanings

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Animals and their Magickal Properties and meanings

I find Ted Andrew's book is a descent starting point but as a encompassing title there is a lot of doubt and personal bias. Though I admit it is far better than D J Conway's Animal book.

[Maria de Luna]

Re: Animals and their Magickal Properties and meanings

Keeping and eye on this thread, must have missed it...

[Bjorn]

Re: Animals and their Magickal Properties and meanings

I find Ted Andrew's book is a descent starting point but as a encompassing title there is a lot of doubt and personal bias. Though I admit it is far better than D J Conway's Animal book.

Agreed. What I got most from him was HOW he derived his meanings and then applied the symbolism. He encouraged me to pay attention and research my own totems specifically, but I always got the impression that he was just kinda sharing his own stuff.

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Does Ted Andrews actually claim to be of Native American spirituality? I don't think that he does, but I could be wrong. I seem to remember reading a disclaimer of his somewhere specifically saying that he isn't, but I'm tired and I could be hallucinating that lol

Ted Andrews is a bit controversial in the world of 'animal-guide-workers'. Some of his research is dodgy, which has led to him publishing some factual inaccuracies about certain animal species. But I actually think that he does have merits aside from this. There are other 'totemists' whose research is just as dodgy. And to be honest, Andrews' groundwork and basic advice is far less dodgy than some other authors I've read.

Always supplement ANY author's interpretation with your own research. Or better yet, start with your own research on an animal, and then read a few different 'totem dictionaries' to supplement your research. That way you're more likely to get a well rounded view and weed out any inaccuracies or personal biases.

He doesn't claim it at all, I just didn't know what to call him.

[Rae'ya]

Re: Animals and their Magickal Properties and meanings

I find Ted Andrew's book is a descent starting point but as a encompassing title there is a lot of doubt and personal bias. Though I admit it is far better than D J Conway's Animal book.

Agreed. Not a Conway fan lol

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He doesn't claim it at all, I just didn't know what to call him.

Ahh that makes sense. Pulling out the 'Native American anything' title is controversial in the worlds of shamanism and totemism (not that most of us use the term 'totemist' anymore). Cultural appropriation is a big concern for a lot of shamanists, spirit workers and animal guide workers.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Animals and their Magickal Properties and meanings

Agreed. Not a Conway fan lol

I'm just glad I don't see reference to those works as much anymore. At one time it seemed Conway was referenced as much as McCoy and Silver Ravenwolf as a source document that just had to be read.

Ahh that makes sense. Pulling out the 'Native American anything' title is controversial in the worlds of shamanism and totemism (not that most of us use the term 'totemist' anymore). Cultural appropriation is a big concern for a lot of shamanists, spirit workers and animal guide workers.

Totemism is a word I've not seen used in sometime in the pagan folds, though in truth I never did see it used as much as Shamanism / Shamanic. Sort of like Anamatism is not used that often either though people cite Animism quite frequently as a descriptor of their pathway.

For me I try to avoid cultural stealing as best I can. Not to say I don't use some words as some words have always felt right to me such as "Gitchi Manitou" vice "Great Spirit" which are both Native American words for something nearly the same. Sometimes though I will try to use the native word for a concept or notion, especially when trying to discuss the notion or concept and acknowledge its source or point of origin.

I do admit I find it interesting that so much Native American spirituality has been lifted yet you really don't see that much Aboriginal terminology or Central & South American native people's practices being borrowed from. Lakota (Sioux) and Tsagli (Cherokee) appear to be the two most borrowed from nations when it comes to Native American concepts.

[thalassa]

Re: Animals and their Magickal Properties and meanings

I do admit I find it interesting that so much Native American spirituality has been lifted yet you really don't see that much Aboriginal terminology or Central & South American native people's practices being borrowed from. Lakota (Sioux) and Tsagli (Cherokee) appear to be the two most borrowed from nations when it comes to Native American concepts.

I would add Navajo and Apache, to that too...


Probably because of availability and proximity. Personally, I'd love to know enough about the local Native practices as a way to be more connected to my land base. But...the local Native tribe doesn't even know all that much about their original Native practices (not that there are many of them), because Natives practicing their original practices were pretty much wiped out in the first two centuries of colonization. The Cherokee had the benefit of their own lands for (relatively speaking) longer (than the Powhatan) and their own written language (thanks to Sequoyah)...

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Animals and their Magickal Properties and meanings

I would add Navajo and Apache, to that too...


Probably because of availability and proximity. Personally, I'd love to know enough about the local Native practices as a way to be more connected to my land base. But...the local Native tribe doesn't even know all that much about their original Native practices (not that there are many of them), because Natives practicing their original practices were pretty much wiped out in the first two centuries of colonization. The Cherokee had the benefit of their own lands for (relatively speaking) longer (than the Powhatan) and their own written language (thanks to Sequoyah)...

I should have though of the Navajo for sure. Especially in regards to Dream Walkers and Skin Walkers and that incursion into pagan myths. The Apache I truly do not know enough about to even recognize something that would be pulled from their national lore and spirituality, of note I use nationality in association to Native American groups being parts of Nations and tribal units.

I hesitate to even use the notion that I am supposed to be descendant from two nations but so far removed from them via time and contact that I do not feel right using it. I have cousins that have tried to prove it and get recognized for the educational benefits and such of being recognized as a Native American. but to me that is unethical and trying to exploit that heritage not embrace it. It can cause conflict as I have aspects that call to me or I am told I feel because of it but it makes it hard to speak about it for sure.

I agree that many heritages and beliefs have been wiped out during the colonial period and later. Yet within pagandom we keep running into the corrupted notion of a American Indian Pantheon which simply never existed but is so often referenced. Makes it really hard to get people willing to discuss things about spirituality and beliefs because so much has been stolen or lifted and corrupted.

[Rae'ya]

Re: Animals and their Magickal Properties and meanings

I'm just glad I don't see reference to those works as much anymore. At one time it seemed Conway was referenced as much as McCoy and Silver Ravenwolf as a source document that just had to be read.

There are still those that swear by her. I myself fell into that trap when I was a newbie and I am ashamed to say that I actually do own several of her books. That's only because I can't bring myself to get rid of any book though lol. And I maintain that every author has their merits... even if it's only to show you what you DON'T believe and how NOT to practice your faith. Sometimes that's important too lol

Totemism is a word I've not seen used in sometime in the pagan folds, though in truth I never did see it used as much as Shamanism / Shamanic. Sort of like Anamatism is not used that often either though people cite Animism quite frequently as a descriptor of their pathway.

Yeah we don't really use it anymore, as I said, but three or four years ago it was still commonly used in the 'totemist community'. I was never really comfortable with it in the first place (apart from the fact that it's a culturally appropriated term, it's been taken completely out of context to boot), but there was a distinct lack of an alternative term and so we all used it anyway. A number of years ago I decided that I'd just scrap it and to hell with a one-word label that described the fact that I work with animal guides and energies. I was offline for over two years because we had no internet, and when I came back I found that many others had done the same thing lol. One of those weird things where multiple people independently make the same change without there being any real planned consensus. Hundredth monkey sort of thing lol.

Animatism... I'd say that people just don't know the term exists lol. I think because it's one of those things that if you're pagan and you're not an animist, you're probably an animatist. Very few pagans think that things like plants and crystals are totally inanimate, but not everyone thinks that they have an actual spirit. So therefore we animists use a term to set ourselves apart, but everyone else just assumes that there is no term for them.

Of course labels are like that. I'm starting to see more and more pagans distinguishing themselves as pantheists or panentheists. The hard vs soft polytheistic debate has been around since I've been online, but very few people break things down further into henotheism or kathenotheism. There are plenty of henotheistic pagans out there, it's just not a term that is commonly used. And of course autotheism... even the LaVeyan Satanists actually don't use this label, despite the fact that it applies.

For me I try to avoid cultural stealing as best I can. Not to say I don't use some words as some words have always felt right to me such as "Gitchi Manitou" vice "Great Spirit" which are both Native American words for something nearly the same. Sometimes though I will try to use the native word for a concept or notion, especially when trying to discuss the notion or concept and acknowledge its source or point of origin.

I do admit I find it interesting that so much Native American spirituality has been lifted yet you really don't see that much Aboriginal terminology or Central & South American native people's practices being borrowed from. Lakota (Sioux) and Tsagli (Cherokee) appear to be the two most borrowed from nations when it comes to Native American concepts.

I wonder if it's a case of exposure. Here in Australia the Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders are in a similar situation to the Native Americans, but there seems to be a different attitude somehow. Common Dreamtime stories are played on the television, we have Aboriginal stations and television programs, some primary schools (erm... elementary school I think) teach some basic local lore, there are some sacred sites and significant sites that are open to tourism, some towns and cities display their Aboriginal heritage proudly... at yet there is very little cultural appropriation and very little unrest within the Aboriginal communities about cultural appropriation. We are still healing from the Stolen Generation and the atrocities that were committed against the Aboriginal peoples; and Reconciliation has been an ongoing project and will continue to be. And then look at the Maori of New Zealand and the internal situation there, which is similar yet different again. So perhaps it simply comes down to exposure.

There are lots of Aboriginal words that have made it into common Australian English... not only words that have become Australian slang, but commonly known words that have been latinized like 'kangaroo' and 'kookaburra' and 'galah'. Also things that Australians don't think twice about, but which Americans may not know the meaning of, like 'billabong' or 'corroboree'. Some non-Aussies may know what the Dreamtime is, or the Rainbow Serpent, but are unlikely to know that many of the Aboriginal 'deities' are actually landwights, animal guides and other nature spirits.

It's one of those interesting things that comes out of America having such a large presence in the media, movies/television, published books and internet. Much of the entertainment industry is so US-centric that the rest of the Western World is exposed to it without even realising it. Yet not that much of anywhere outside the US makes it to US common knowledge... and that which does is not always recognised as such.

[Willow]

Re: Animals and their Magickal Properties and meanings

http://www.whats-your-sign.com/shark-totem-and-symbolism.html

http://www.animal-symbols.com/shark-symbol.html#.UeQeum2SEZN

http://www.shamanicjourney.com/article/6229/shark-power-animal-symbol-of-fearlessness

http://alltotems.com/fox-spirit-meaning-symbols-and-totem/

http://www.animalspirits.com/index1.html

Sorry, they're on links for animals that I've been perusing a bit. But these are the sites I've found that I like so far.

My main, and most reliable, resource for investigating the animal presences in my life actually come from basic, mundane, zoological research. By that I mean, google the animal itself and look up its behaviors, cycles, movements, biological functioning, look up youtube videos to see how it moves, try to get into its head, and pay attention to what it's actually doing when you spot it yourself.

I like Ted Andrews' book Animal Speak, it gives a decent idea of what kinds of things to look for in the animal's biology and behavior itself, but it doesn't go into enough species (in my opinion) to be very useful as a specific field guide. For example, a couple of my "totem" guardians (shark, snow leopard, harbor seal) are not mentioned in the book. But I've spent so much time researching those animals, and after reading the book, there are certain things that stand out to me when I'm reading about them.