Human interaction based on looks

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: Human interaction based on looks

The whole thing about people being treated differently because of looks also applies to wealth, or perceived wealth.....I was thinking about how, when I lost weight in high school, people looked at me differently and how angry that made me (because I was the SAME person), and those strange little dots that connect in my brain started firing.....when I moved out of my crappy shoebox apt. in a bad neighborhood to a new, upscale townhome, I was treated/spoken to very differently, by the cable guy, the electric co., you name it. A simple change of address and all of a sudden I was WORTHY. Screw that. If you didn't have time for me when I was the stepsister cleaning the fireplace, you are not entitled to my time when I'm Cinderella at the ball.

[WinterTraditions]

Re: Human interaction based on looks

Okay I just have to say this - the "it's evolution!" argument is not only horribly flawed, but a slippery slope. I'm sorry but it just does not make any real logical sense, other than as a justification for being shallow about people's looks, and every time I see it I also see right past it to the core of what kind of mindset it's usually used to support. So were we, then, evolved to have the American, or English, or Italian, or whatever cultural outlook on what makes women (or men) beautiful? I mean come on now, let's think about this for a moment, people. Beauty is so completely subjective, culturally and even individually speaking. Oh I know there have been projects struggling to find the so-called median between cultures on what is considered beautiful, and they decided symmetry was the biggest thing, and all of that - but seriously, take one single second to look at the immense diversity of what is seen as "beautiful" and none of that BS holds up for very long. It made headlines in the same way any other junk science does (Coffee is good for you this week! But next week we'll find out it causes cancer!), and it reeked. Time and time again I've seen that sort of thing being latched onto so that shallow people could feel better about being douchebags to everyone around them. "What can I say - I'm evolved, you guys! I can't help it! :awesome: "

What I'm trying to say is "beauty" is cultural, conditioned, and/or individual taste (often a nebulous mixture of these factors), not in-grained. Only certain very minimal things are ingrained into our instincts - most importantly, scanning people's faces for like menacing expressions, or noticing whether they appear healthy or not (as in, disease, as in, instinctively don't want to get sickness from people). But when it comes to just appearance in general - boobs, butt, flatchest, fat, thin, blonde, brunette, short hair, long hair, clothing choice - that is aaaaallll subjective.

As a woman who spends every single day of her life getting glared at from all directions for being overweight, I can tell you all of those people glaring at me are faaaaar from prime examples of "evolved". I find that the ones NOT staring at me generally tend to show a higher capacity for intelligence. I used to get really upset because all these people were treating me like sh*t. Then I realized - I didn't want their affections. Every single one of those gawkers is about average-or-below in intelligence, and any interactions I might have had with them if I were some kind of smoking hot supermodel would have given me a migraine anyway - trust me, I know from experience. My best friend thinks exactly like me - same general outlook on life, same personality overall, even a lot of the same background - and every time we go out for drinks it's like a social experiment, I swear. She's drop-dead gorgeous and doesn't mind flaunting it, hips swaying, boobs bouncing - and she's utterly swarmed by total idiots. Me, I get the attention of far more smart folks and no-nonsense Jaded Joes. She's gotten angry at me for it sometimes. And I've since realized the most depressing (or hilarious, if you think about it in a certain light) thing about being a smart fat chick is not being unpopular, but waking up to just how many stupid people are really out there. I can walk in, scan the room, catch the glaring, gawking faces, those lips just slightly curled up in visceral disgust - hmm, 85% idiots. Yep, humanity is so totally doomed.

As for the video, Hoffman pointed out something very important - but also something that SHOULD have been painfully obvious, and something that really just makes him sound like ten times more of a douchebag to me. I was amused at his little emotional display, honestly. At first I couldn't quite articulate why, but I get it now. It's kind of like saying, "Oh my god you guys. I'm crying right now, omigawd, hang on, hang on, let me stop crying - okay...okay...guys...guys! I just realized. Black people are not criminals! I've been going around with a can of mace for no reason! Oh it just chokes me up so much, I should have known! I'm going to go hug a black guy right now! :dummy: "

It's like yeah, whatever - screw you too, Dustin Hoffman.

When I say evolution, I'm not saying that this change is a good thing and it only happens to certain people. Evolution (Not the scientific evolution having to do with monkeys) has to do with how our emotional, mental, and sometimes physical characteristics are changed based on the perceived moral value and/or basis of a particular society. (A person growing in a society where small feet are attractive and pleasing, are more likely to inherit those ideas/values than someone outside that society. It's society-based evolution. If another society that likes large feet slowly moves into this small-foot society, eventually the small-foots will gain the attraction towards large feet due to society interaction.) I certainly was not saying that every culture loves skinny blonde women with a large chest. I was making a point that is the same for every culture: that humans love symmetry. I was not talking about personal preference. No matter what society a person grows in, personal preference is personal.

Sidenote, this is based off of my own research into attraction and beauty. If you want to discuss this, please do so without the touchy wording.

"...a justification for being shallow about people's looks, and every time I see it I also see right past it to the core of what kind of mindset it's usually used to support."

Humans hate being called anything that means they are morally wrong. I'm sorry if I offend anyone by saying that humans love symmetry and that there is no way to be unbiased towards people. However, it does not give you the call to name me a shallow person and with an a hinted unstable mind.

Two, you should not call every person that dislikes a certain feature (weight, for example) to be idiots or unintelligent. Most usually, it is not their fault for being brought up in a way that makes them think that overweight people are lesser than skinnies. They may be ignorant, but that does not make them unintelligent.

[Monster]

Re: Human interaction based on looks

Okay I just have to say this - the "it's evolution!" argument is not only horribly flawed, but a slippery slope. I'm sorry but it just does not make any real logical sense, other than as a justification for being shallow about people's looks, and every time I see it I also see right past it to the core of what kind of mindset it's usually used to support. So were we, then, evolved to have the American, or English, or Italian, or whatever cultural outlook on what makes women (or men) beautiful? I mean come on now, let's think about this for a moment, people. Beauty is so completely subjective, culturally and even individually speaking. Oh I know there have been projects struggling to find the so-called median between cultures on what is considered beautiful, and they decided symmetry was the biggest thing, and all of that - but seriously, take one single second to look at the immense diversity of what is seen as "beautiful" and none of that BS holds up for very long. It made headlines in the same way any other junk science does (Coffee is good for you this week! But next week we'll find out it causes cancer!), and it reeked. Time and time again I've seen that sort of thing being latched onto so that shallow people could feel better about being douchebags to everyone around them. "What can I say - I'm evolved, you guys! I can't help it! :awesome: "

What I'm trying to say is "beauty" is cultural, conditioned, and/or individual taste (often a nebulous mixture of these factors), not in-grained. Only certain very minimal things are ingrained into our instincts - most importantly, scanning people's faces for like menacing expressions, or noticing whether they appear healthy or not (as in, disease, as in, instinctively don't want to get sickness from people). But when it comes to just appearance in general - boobs, butt, flatchest, fat, thin, blonde, brunette, short hair, long hair, clothing choice - that is aaaaallll subjective.

As a woman who spends every single day of her life getting glared at from all directions for being overweight, I can tell you all of those people glaring at me are faaaaar from prime examples of "evolved". I find that the ones NOT staring at me generally tend to show a higher capacity for intelligence. I used to get really upset because all these people were treating me like sh*t. Then I realized - I didn't want their affections. Every single one of those gawkers is about average-or-below in intelligence, and any interactions I might have had with them if I were some kind of smoking hot supermodel would have given me a migraine anyway - trust me, I know from experience. My best friend thinks exactly like me - same general outlook on life, same personality overall, even a lot of the same background - and every time we go out for drinks it's like a social experiment, I swear. She's drop-dead gorgeous and doesn't mind flaunting it, hips swaying, boobs bouncing - and she's utterly swarmed by total idiots. Me, I get the attention of far more smart folks and no-nonsense Jaded Joes. She's gotten angry at me for it sometimes. And I've since realized the most depressing (or hilarious, if you think about it in a certain light) thing about being a smart fat chick is not being unpopular, but waking up to just how many stupid people are really out there. I can walk in, scan the room, catch the glaring, gawking faces, those lips just slightly curled up in visceral disgust - hmm, 85% idiots. Yep, humanity is so totally doomed.

As for the video, Hoffman pointed out something very important - but also something that SHOULD have been painfully obvious, and something that really just makes him sound like ten times more of a douchebag to me. I was amused at his little emotional display, honestly. At first I couldn't quite articulate why, but I get it now. It's kind of like saying, "Oh my god you guys. I'm crying right now, omigawd, hang on, hang on, let me stop crying - okay...okay...guys...guys! I just realized. Black people are not criminals! I've been going around with a can of mace for no reason! Oh it just chokes me up so much, I should have known! I'm going to go hug a black guy right now! :dummy: "

It's like yeah, whatever - screw you too, Dustin Hoffman.

You make me moist.

[RainbowDemonic]

Re: Human interaction based on looks

When I say evolution, I'm not saying that this change is a good thing and it only happens to certain people. Evolution (Not the scientific evolution having to do with monkeys) has to do with how our emotional, mental, and sometimes physical characteristics are changed based on the perceived moral value and/or basis of a particular society. (A person growing in a society where small feet are attractive and pleasing, are more likely to inherit those ideas/values than someone outside that society. It's society-based evolution. If another society that likes large feet slowly moves into this small-foot society, eventually the small-foots will gain the attraction towards large feet due to society interaction.) I certainly was not saying that every culture loves skinny blonde women with a large chest. I was making a point that is the same for every culture: that humans love symmetry. I was not talking about personal preference. No matter what society a person grows in, personal preference is personal.

Sidenote, this is based off of my own research into attraction and beauty. If you want to discuss this, please do so without the touchy wording.

"...a justification for being shallow about people's looks, and every time I see it I also see right past it to the core of what kind of mindset it's usually used to support."

Humans hate being called anything that means they are morally wrong. I'm sorry if I offend anyone by saying that humans love symmetry and that there is no way to be unbiased towards people. However, it does not give you the call to name me a shallow person and with an a hinted unstable mind.

I chose my words carefully, including "usually" and "slippery slope". I have no idea what you personally felt on the matter - I truly believe many who talk about the whole symmetry and evolutionary thing do not realize how it could be taken, and are genuinely not intending it that way. I also know for a fact that it can be, and is, often used to say - as I said earlier - basically, "Oh I can't help being shallow, it's just evolution bro." I think when we're talking about a loaded-gun topic, that is, the fact that many women are judged, objectified, and treated like crap based on their looks alone (and that includes beautiful women by the way, who often develop massive trust issues because people only seem to care about them based on their beauty - it goes both ways, here, as I tried to point out by mentioning my much-hotter friend as an example)...it is counterproductive to bring up the evolution thing. Do I believe that in a society which favors big feet, you're more likely to find people with big feet breeding? Of course, it's only logical. I also believe it won't do anyone any good to enter a conversation about the fallacy of judging based on looks (with Hoffman weeping over all of the women he has wrongly ignored or misjudged based on their looks) and start saying "It's evolution!" I'm saying it blurs the lines a little bit when they should be a lot clearer. It's simple. Treating women like crap because they don't look hot, or treating them awesomely only because they look hot, is very wrong.

Two, you should not call every person that dislikes a certain feature (weight, for example) to be idiots or unintelligent. Most usually, it is not their fault for being brought up in a way that makes them think that overweight people are lesser than skinnies. They may be ignorant, but that does not make them unintelligent.

I don't judge based on what a person likes or dislikes, that's not the point. If you find body-builder women to be unattractive, well that's personal taste, but the important thing is that you can still treat them like human beings. I definitely believe that those who take one look at a chick and can't possibly see that chick as anything more than, "Boobs. Butt. Hot. Hehehehe." or "Tall. Kinda manly. Eww." are idiots. Their maturity and basic life skills are way below that of people who can walk up to someone and just talk to them as a person. I give a lot more slack to teenagers who are that way - they'll often grow up to realize they were being stupid. But adults I judge very harshly when they act that way, and I do not believe that to be fallacious. Consistently, I've found that those who are glaring and laughing and gawking at me in the store, and conversely the same who would have been my bestest best friend vying to get in my pants when I was thinner and hotter, are mind-numbingly retarded to talk to.

If someone is raised Redneck, told to believe that the South will rise again, to be white supremacist and chew tobacco all day, does that mean they should do it, or that it's right, or they should be cut a whole lot of slack when they're like 42 and still clinging to backwards behaviors? They've had every chance at that point to look around and realize their parents were teaching them some really dumb stuff. If they never realized that, that's on them.

My dad taught me to believe that black people were lesser human beings, for example. Did I believe him? Hell no! I said "Dad, you are insane!" and that was that. He also taught me that pawn shops were evil places made by the Devil because...I don't know, gambling or some other ignorant thing. I said, "Yeah, okay Dad, whatever" and of course I know that pawn shops are just places to pawn your stuff, usually when things are a little tight. I have no pity for shallow people just because they were raised to be shallow. If they persist in the behavior I still consider them immature and stupid. And consistently I find that I have no reason to interact with them - whether I'm thin or fat.

This isn't about what anyone likes or dislikes. It's about how they act. If people act stupid, I'm the type to call it like I see it.

- - - Updated - - -

You make me moist.

Hey now. I'm engaged. :P