Buddhism

[volcaniclastic]

Re: Buddhism

[quote author=cesara link=topic=528.msg15359#msg15359 date=1290288783]
FTR, here are their visiting guidelines:
[/quote]

Wow, crazy! Thanks for the tip though - maybe I'll look into it one day

[DanieMarie]

Re: Buddhism

[quote author=cesara link=topic=528.msg15359#msg15359 date=1290288783]
FTR, here are their visiting guidelines:
[/quote]

Yeah right there is pretty much why I can't do it. #1 is impossible because my allergies mean I can't be vegetarian (I'm assuming eating meat is covered in that) and the last three just greatly conflict with my worldview and lifestyle. And giving up singing? NEVER! Singing is part of my soul!

[Madness]

Re: Buddhism

This may be a bit off topic, hmmm...might even start a new thread. But a deal with a lot of survivalists. You know, the folks that think the world is gonna end any second. They stockpile and live day to day like it's the last one of civilization. So they cut themselves off from imported foods or cable TV. Ok....that's great - get prepped for all that stuff. But in the meantime, why not take advantage of having cinnamon from Asia and TV from LA?

I feel the same about strict Buddhism. In Nirvana, I won't need food, TV, sex, alcohol or any entertainment. Everything will be perfect. In the meantime, I'm gonna pig out on chocolate and make nookie with the hubby. Oh, and drink beer. Lots of it.

But I do like their meditation, general world view, etc. I just think the tenants can be a bit extreme...

[Dez]

Re: Buddhism

L has a lot of respect for Buddhism. I think a lot of it comes from growing up watching his mother have an unhealthy obsession with stuff. Seriously.

I regularly wonder what will happen when she dies and realizes that she doesn't own all her stuff anymore.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Buddhism

You know that to be a Buddhist doesn't require that you become a monk, any more than being a Christian requires you to become a monk. It's possible to go into the thing without going into it whole hog.

You can be a Buddhist and live a pretty normal life in the world - with just a few adjustments to behavior, and a lot of adjustments in thinking.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Buddhism

[quote author=B. de Corbin link=topic=528.msg16013#msg16013 date=1290441910]
You know that to be a Buddhist doesn't require that you become a monk, any more than being a Christian requires you to become a monk. It's possible to go into the thing without going into it whole hog.

You can be a Buddhist and live a pretty normal life in the world - with just a few adjustments to behavior, and a lot of adjustments in thinking.
[/quote]

Of course. But it does involve an understanding that the material world causes suffering and that, in practice, in order to reduce that suffering involves a detachment from it, which kind of completely conflicts with my world view, because I believe that beauty and art make life much more enjoyable and I don't find life to mean suffering at all.
So in a nutshell, I respect buddhists and their beliefs but don't share them.

[Dez]

Re: Buddhism

I would think that it's entirely possible to appreciate the beauty in the world around you, but also understand that it is innately fragile, and doomed to decay. If anything, that impermanence makes many things even more lovely, and can help one to see beauty even in death...finding a rose lovely from bud to withered husk.

[me=Deseret]takes her Zen Goth hat back off :[/me]

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Buddhism

[quote author=DanieMarie link=topic=528.msg16042#msg16042 date=1290444112]
Of course. But it does involve an understanding that the material world causes suffering and that, in practice, in order to reduce that suffering involves a detachment from it, which kind of completely conflicts with my world view, because I believe that beauty and art make life much more enjoyable and I don't find life to mean suffering at all.
So in a nutshell, I respect Buddhists and their beliefs but don't share them.
[/quote]

Yes...

This is why I'm not a Buddhist - I love the world (even with all the crap) way to much. Sometimes it's actually wading through the crap that makes getting to the shore worthwhile.

But, also, from talking to people who actually are Buddhists, I think there is a bit of misunderstanding about this. "Detachment" does not mean "a separation from something," it means "ending the attachment to something."

The difference would be this:

A person who has separated his/her self from the world would never own a Jaguar, because a Jaguar is a material possession, and this person has rejected material possessions.

A person who has ended attachments might own a Jaguar, but would not obsess about every little scratch and ding because he/she is not attached to the thing itself, or the idea of the thing, or what the thing represents.

I may be wrong about this - it's not an area that I claim expertise in (I really prefer Zen Buddhism - those who know don't speak, those who speak don't know...)

[quote author=Deseret link=topic=528.msg16054#msg16054 date=1290445441]
I would think that it's entirely possible to appreciate the beauty in the world around you, but also understand that it is innately fragile, and doomed to decay. If anything, that impermanence makes many things even more lovely, and can help one to see beauty even in death...finding a rose lovely from bud to withered husk.[/quote]

If I were to try explain the aesthetics of "beauty" at it's most fundamental level, I think I'd put it something like that ^. A thing is beautiful because we know it will not last forever.

[Dez]

Re: Buddhism

http://www.paganforum.com/index.php? [quote author=B. de Corbin link=topic=528.msg16094#msg16094 date=1290451558]
If I were to try explain the aesthetics of "beauty" at it's most fundamental level, I think I'd put it something like that ^. A thing is beautiful because we know it will not last forever.
[/quote]

Hehe, well, thank you...but I realized re-reading it just now that I failed to tie it in with what Danie was actually saying.

I can admire great works of art, even if I live in a simple home, with little, if anything on the walls.

I can love good food, but that doesn't mean that I should eat too much, or spend a lot of money buying fancy ingredients.

I can love nice things, but I shouldn't do so out of a sense of self-inadequacy, or to impress other people. I shouldn't go out of my way to get nice things when I don't know if I'll be able to pay the rent, or let my love for them come between me and my family.

I can love my family, or my spouse, but I shouldn't let my love for them push me to do something I would otherwise consider wrong, or stay in a situation in which I am being harmed; physically, emotionally, or spiritually.

My perspective is ultimately more Epicurean then Buddhist, though. I don't see a problem with getting stuff, as long as you're willing to deal with the repercussions of said stuff, rather then wanting to drink yourself silly, then crying about the hangover in the morning.

Do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not; remember that what you now have was once among the things you only hoped for.

If thou wilt make a man happy, add not unto his riches but take away from his desires.

It is better for you to be free of fear lying upon a pallet, than to have a golden couch and a rich table and be full of trouble.

Not what we have But what we enjoy, constitutes our abundance.

[Shahaku]

Re: Buddhism

Wow, this has taken off since I last visited, so let me jump in.

In Buddhism, there are the four noble truths, and many of you seem concerned with the first one, that life is suffering. To clarify, as I was taught in my class, this doesn't mean that everything on earth causes one to suffer. What it mainly refers to is the cycle of life. You are born and then you die. When you die you may come back to life as you were, but more often you either move into a better or worse type of life. Either way, you are in a constant cycle of death and rebirth and constantly at risk of entering a "worse realm".

For instance, the hell realm is a place you go for punishment for being particularly "bad" in life. You continue to be punished until you've made up for that "badness" and then you die and move again. Another difficult realm is the hungry ghost realm, where you are always thirsty and hungry, but unable to eat or drink. This is a really simple explantation of these realms, but you can see that you would suffer in them.

You could also be born in a better realm, like that of the gods or demi-gods, but they are often plagued by jealousy of their peers. There is a lot of pleasure, but still not perfect.

The human realm is considered the perfect realm to reach enlightenment because you aren't so focused on pleasures as to get distracted from the path of enlightenment, but you also aren't so tortured as to be unable to think of enlightenment. And even here there are little sufferings, like being away from what you love (ex, sending your baby to kindergarten, even if its a happy moment, it kinda hurts), not getting what you want, illness and death.

I hope that explains suffering a little better.

Next problem: A lot of people also seem to have trouble with the second truth and where it leads. The second truth is that suffering is caused by attachment, so logically detachment ends suffering.

However, this doesn't mean living without. The Buddha, refering to Siddhartha and not all of the buddhas, encouraged a "middle path/way". He said that one could not reach enlightmentment through extremes. So don't starve yourself but also don't eat so much you make yourself sick. Eat just enough to make yourself comfortable. This applies to more than just food.

Though it is encouraged to follow this middle path as closely as possible, lay people (those who aren't monk/nuns) aren't required to follow this. All that is required of a lay person, in order to be considered Buddhist, is for them to take the triple refuge which is to trust in: the teaching of the Buddha, the teachings of the Dharma, and the Sangha. That is to beleive what the Buddha said, even if you aren't ready to commit. To beleive in those teachings of the Buddha, and to trust to Buddhist community for support.

Many times, lay followers will only commit to one "rule". For instance, they may refrain from alcohol or dedicate themselves to only speaking the truth or sleep on a pallet instead of a hay/feather bed. Notice, that is an or, not an and. And this is only to show dedication and often only for a set period of time. Though they do follow rules like not to steal or kill, to speak correctly, have "proper" sex.

They are not working towards enlightenment, but more for a place in heaven as a god by being good people.

I have a dislike for the westernization of Buddhism and all of the misconceptions it has caused about the actual practices of Buddhists. Maybe that clears things up, maybe that just confuses it more.

[tigergypsy]

Re: Buddhism

Last night, I started watching a program entitled "The Buddha". It was all about Prince Siddhartha and his life (first Buddha). It was quite interesting.

I believe Shahaku hit it on the head. What Siddhartha found was that there was a middle way. A balanced way. One way it was explained was if you take a guitar string, pulled tight, it makes music and we dance, pulled too tight, it breaks and the music dies. If the string is loose, it will crumble and will not make music, so the music dies and no one dances. So there is a extreme path (too tight), and "lazy" path (too loose) and a middle path (just right).

This made so much sense to me (along with other ideas mentioned in the program) that I order "Buddha: Path to Enlightenment" from my library. Can't wait to read it, maybe I am more Buddhist then I thought I ever could be.

[Sirius]

Re: Buddhism

I love buddhism. It is something the resonates with me strongly, along with pantheism.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Buddhism

I'm trying to get a little "zen" into my life lately, though it's hard because I'm naturally a type-A personality.

[Rowanwood]

Re: Buddhism

I've joked that pregnancy has made me zen. It's not just a hormones; it's just a stepping back and realizing what is really important and what isn't.

Granted, that's taking the entire detachment thing to its simpliest, but I think that's as close to Buddhism as I can get.

I would be a big fail as a pacifist.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Buddhism

I try, but I'm also really passionate, VERY impatient (though I've learned to have a bit more control over it as I've gotten older) and have trouble getting in into the "calm" of things.

I've sort of been trying to work -with- all that though rather than against it and that's where the zen comes in.