What about forcing ideologies on others?

[lillywolf]

Well we are talking about forcing ideologies on our beloved pets, but what about forcing them on others, like children, just as an example.

Has anyone experienced this at all?

[DanieMarie]

Re: What about forcing ideologies on others?

This is such a hard topic, and I think it's a source of a lot of conflict in a lot of the world.

i guess, the line has to be personal freedom, and child welfare. If your ideology is a danger to your child's life, that shouldn't be ok. Same goes for forcing your beliefs on adults. If you have a grown child (as in, not a minor) you effectively cannot force your beliefs on him or her. Same goes for any other adult in your life. I know that legally, this is definitely true...I just wish it would be less socially acceptable to try to force your beliefs on others. I can think of a couple of friends who I would like to stop trying to convince me to believe in something I don't.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: What about forcing ideologies on others?

As someone who has had some success in raising two kids, I'll say I never much bothered.

I would like them to feel free - or not - to explore as they wish.

At best, we steered them a bit, by knowing where and when to apply the fulcrum, and what kind (NOT: don't do that! Ya look like an idiot!, BUT: I think it would be a good idea if you stop doing that in public...)

Both came out not just OK, but GOOD.

I don't recommended the hands off method for all kids, but K'Roe & I got lucky...

[lillywolf]

Re: What about forcing ideologies on others?

I was asking this for a good reason and I am glad I did now. My 2 eldest children are from a different father and their grandparents a re devout Christian and are always taking them to church when they have them and have now started to send books to my kids telling the story of Jesus. Now I have told my kids that they can look in to whatever religion they wish and I would never judge them for it but they do not want to read about Jesus and God (my son has enough of that at school)

My son has just asked me if he can read my book on Heathen gods and goddesses so I naturally handed him the book because it is an easy book to read. I know though that if his grandparents would find out they would probably have a heart attack!

[DanieMarie]

Re: What about forcing ideologies on others?

It's not forcing if he asked

[B. de Corbin]

Re: What about forcing ideologies on others?

How old are they? Is reading aloud appropriate for the age & temperament of the child (& your's as well)? That way, you can keep control of the books.

It's also a primo way of judging where their interests lay, and of initiating discussions. It's a technique known as "having fun with the kids"...

[Vigdisdotter]

Re: What about forcing ideologies on others?

The only thing I have had "forced" on me growing up was the importance of being a critical thinker.

[lillywolf]

Re: What about forcing ideologies on others?

It's not forcing if he asked

I know but it was their grandparents forcing Christianity on them, even when they tell them they are not interested. I cannot really control it because they have the kids and I am not there because it was their son that made me and the kids have to go in to a women's refuge so I have as little contact as possible due to the fact that they would not help me get out of that situation, but anyway, going off topic there.

Can I ask them not to take the kids to church? They go every Sunday so I do not know if that is the right thing to do. I mean their grandfather was a Reverend !

[Heka]

Re: What about forcing ideologies on others?

Now this is a source of massive contention between me and hubby.

In year 4, my husband was pulled out of school and enrolled through home school in the 'Australian Christian Academy'. He lost friends, never learnt how to talk to women and in my opinion, was never able actually question his beliefs the same as other kids (like, "why am I the only one in my grade who goes to church?"). Not to mention his parents were the kind who help to found their own church in town...

*sigh*

[DanieMarie]

Re: What about forcing ideologies on others?

That's actually a big reason why I want my kids to go to public school. I'm concerned about the English classes here, as I get told sooooo often "but my English teacher said it's x" (referring to vocab or grammar) and it's just -wrong-. They don't really hire many native English speaking teachers, and most people who major in English to a higher level go into other fields, so most English teachers are just Ed majors who speak more English than their peers. Which doesn't always mean they have perfect English. I'm also afraid that my children will get bored in English class. I plan on speaking English with them right from the start, and reading with them in the language. I want to have a bilingual household, basically.

BUT most bilingual schools are private schools. I have some issues with that as well. I'd rather confront the English issues than send my kids to school in a bubble. I want them to go to school with different groups of people, and not just privileged people. There are a few that are public though, so I guess we'll just have to see.

I guess in a way that's forcing an ideology on my kids, but I don't know that "you should be exposed to people from different income levels and cultures" is a bad one lol.

[Lilium of the Valley]

Re: What about forcing ideologies on others?

I think it's wrong to force ideologies on pets...so forcing them on children is of course wrong as well IMO. Children are their own persons, that should be given the opportunity to grow and make their own experiences. Not be forced into something they don't really love. Same thing goes for any loved ones really. My uncle was once with a woman who happened to be vegan. She "forced" this onto him all the time. He was not ALLOWED to eat meat, nor dairy nor anything that involved animals. These kinds of things were not allowed to be brought into their apartment etc. In the beginning (for love) he lived like that, but in the long run the relationship went to hell and back. Why?! Simple, even in a relationship one has to love the other person for who they are, for the choices they make, whatever they may be and regardless if one self likes it or agrees with it or not. As soon as you are forcing someone to do whatever, they will be able to do it for so and so long and then they will go back to being themselves. It is in our nature.
Plus (especially with kids but spouses as well) it's much nicer to know my kid/bf/gf/whatever is doing this because he/she actually enjoys this, loves what they are doing, believe in what they are doing. Rather than knowing, they are only doing it to shut me up or to please me/make me happy etc. but themselves they could care less or are even miserable.

[DanieMarie]

Re: What about forcing ideologies on others?

Agreed. I suppose with kids, you tend to feed them whatever you make to eat yourself, so it's a bit different. I do know a few vegan parents with vegan kids and they're very healthy, but they also take a lot of care with their diets (their own and their children's) and have regular medical check ups to make sure that there aren't any deficiencies. Once kids are old enough to decide for themselves, they should be allowed to do so.

No one should force their lifestyle on their spouse, ever. If your spouse doesn't want to eat what you eat, that's up to him or her. I think the only exception is severe food allergies, because contamination is an issue in a single household. I know that here, there is a strict "no peanut/no legume/no soy protein policy," just because I can die and stuff. Hannes can eat that stuff outside of the house if he wants to though. Also, stuff I'm less allergic to such as soy sauce and stuff with soy lecithin in it is allowed, he just can't make food with those things in it for both of us. He's sort of been sucked into my allergy lifestyle, because we usually cook for both of us and that means he has to check the ingredients on most things he buys lol. It's almost a habit though. I swear he reads ingredients on things he buys just for himself.

[Lilium of the Valley]

Re: What about forcing ideologies on others?

Agreed. I suppose with kids, you tend to feed them whatever you make to eat yourself, so it's a bit different. I do know a few vegan parents with vegan kids and they're very healthy, but they also take a lot of care with their diets (their own and their children's) and have regular medical check ups to make sure that there aren't any deficiencies. Once kids are old enough to decide for themselves, they should be allowed to do so.

No one should force their lifestyle on their spouse, ever. If your spouse doesn't want to eat what you eat, that's up to him or her. I think the only exception is severe food allergies, because contamination is an issue in a single household. I know that here, there is a strict "no peanut/no legume/no soy protein policy," just because I can die and stuff. Hannes can eat that stuff outside of the house if he wants to though. Also, stuff I'm less allergic to such as soy sauce and stuff with soy lecithin in it is allowed, he just can't make food with those things in it for both of us. He's sort of been sucked into my allergy lifestyle, because we usually cook for both of us and that means he has to check the ingredients on most things he buys lol. It's almost a habit though. I swear he reads ingredients on things he buys just for himself.

I feel when it's done in a responsible manner, like you described in your example, raising kids vegan is not a big deal. Not at all. I just feel like it's wrong of some people (which I have seen happen before) to force it upon their teenagers, because they do not want to live this lifestyle anymore. That IMO is just wrong.
First off, sorry to hear you have that many issues with allergies. That has to be hard in some ways, especially if i think in the direction -going out for dinner-. I think it's awesome though that your SO is so caring about it!!!

[thalassa]

Re: What about forcing ideologies on others?

No one should force their lifestyle on their spouse, ever. If your spouse doesn't want to eat what you eat, that's up to him or her. I think the only exception is severe food allergies, because contamination is an issue in a single household.

I'll add one more here: if you aren't going to make it yourself, don't complain if its what the other person will eat and not what you want. As an example, I was a vegetarian for 8 years. When I make meals, meat tends to be a condiment, and I tend to make mostly veggies with rice or rice noodles (since now I can't have gluten). The hubby doesn't complain about it, even though he was raised in (and would prefer to have, once in a while) a big ole steak or some ham or something. If he wants those things, he buys them and makes the dinner. (Honestly, I don't buy them because they are overpriced and underquality for our budget)

[Heka]

Re: What about forcing ideologies on others?

I'll add one more here: if you aren't going to make it yourself, don't complain if its what the other person will eat and not what you want. As an example, I was a vegetarian for 8 years. When I make meals, meat tends to be a condiment, and I tend to make mostly veggies with rice or rice noodles (since now I can't have gluten). The hubby doesn't complain about it, even though he was raised in (and would prefer to have, once in a while) a big ole steak or some ham or something. If he wants those things, he buys them and makes the dinner. (Honestly, I don't buy them because they are overpriced and underquality for our budget)

Same here. If hubby wants meat, he cooks it. Occasionally I'll cook it, to go on the side, but I'm not very good. So if he wants it, cook it and buy it yaself!

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Also I'm waiting for the results of my coeliac screen to come back, if its positive, we may need to have a chat Thal!