Had a Christian try to convert me again, and I have a question.

[Satu]

Re: Had a Christian try to convert me again, and I have a question.

A number of people would tell you not to bother but I have to ask one question. Is your own faith not worth speaking of? If you are out to try and convert or change the person your speaking to then I tend to agree it's a waste of time and seems more based upon revenge or something similar. Yet if it is more about telling about your own faith regardless of whether it changes another then how can it be wrong for to speak on it requires one to understand it. To have had one ponder deeply about it and how it all relates.

I think it is, in part, a matter of how open the dialogue is. Someone engaging in a conversion (or deconversion) attempt does not want an open dialogue. In fact, s/he doesn't want a dialogue at all. So no point in talking about it. Might as well shut down the de/conversion attempt and enjoy the silence.

And then, sometimes your religion is your own danged business and it's no good to talk about it at all.

On rare occasions, I have had conversations with Christians and agnostics that were intended to be open dialogues. There was nothing at stake in the sense of one of us having to prove the "merit" of our beliefs. These kinds of talks are great. In fact, the more we have the better off we all are as a species.

[jcaternolo]

Re: Had a Christian try to convert me again, and I have a question.

Look up Prometheus. He didn't die for humanity but I expect that most humans would beg for death after a day or two of the punishment that was laid on him by Zeus.

IIRC he had his guts torn out by a giant bird then revived, and doomed to repeat the process, for bringing humans fire.

[Unus Mundus]

Re: Had a Christian try to convert me again, and I have a question.

Funny... just today I met with a Christian on my University's campus who was preaching "Jesus" to everyone, and I could tell he was fairly fundamentalist as well. I wanted to avoid him, but I had already been heading down the walkway to where he was preaching (with no one listening I might add), and as I walked up to him, I thought for a moment.

Although I was pagan, and had no great love of Christianity, was it right for me to completely ignore what he said and be just as stone-walled as he was? Did it make me better to ignore him? Instead, I let him approach me and we talked for about ten minutes about Christianity and Jesus (I just acted the part of a "meh" Christian, didn't feel like mentioning the Pagan bit), and what really surprised me was the soulfulness of what he told me. I could tell that deep down, he felt what he was saying was really going to save people, and put them somewhere happy for eternity. To him, he was doing the best absolute good he could do, and although I didn't agree with him, I respected him for that.

Now, that's where I draw it in with this thread. Although I respect him for his belief that he is doing "good" I am fairly sure had I made my position clear, the happy (and might I add one-sided on his part) discussion would have turned quite a bit more ugly. I simply acted as though I was considering what he said, and I was just happy I didn't happen to have my "LGBT" pride button on my backpack yet, so as to avoid that fun discussion.

It just makes me wonder... how can people who genuinely want to see others be happy, use very cruel mind-sets to put that forward? I mean, it isn't "convert or die" anymore, but I'm sure if a few laws were different, it very well could have been along those lines.

[Ophidia]

Re: Had a Christian try to convert me again, and I have a question.

A number of people would tell you not to bother but I have to ask one question. Is your own faith not worth speaking of? If you are out to try and convert or change the person your speaking to then I tend to agree it's a waste of time and seems more based upon revenge or something similar. Yet if it is more about telling about your own faith regardless of whether it changes another then how can it be wrong for to speak on it requires one to understand it. To have had one ponder deeply about it and how it all relates.

Inversely many times we discover the depths to our own beliefs and faiths by trying to make ourselves knowledgeable of others beliefs and faiths. In many ways that is the essence of being eclectic. Not just to understand the surface action but to understand the greater and often more subtle social / moral and ethical things associated with it. You then can speak on nearly every aspect from your spiritual / religious beliefs in compare and contrast to another's.

This is more along the lines of my thought process. I don't proselytize or try to prove that somehow my religion/faith/belief system is better than theirs, but I do teach.

And if I can't teach someone, I will very much make the person regret striking up a conversation with me in the first place. It's what they deserve for talking to strangers, anyway

[Vigdisdotter]

Re: Had a Christian try to convert me again, and I have a question.

Honestly, if someone asked me "what have your gods done for you?" I'd give them a raised eyebrow and ask, "Are your reasons for believing that mercenary?"

While there are plenty of things my gods have done for me (and probably a lot more I never even noticed) I don't believe because I think I'll be given things. And the very idea really rubs me the wrong way.

[Wonderland]

Re: Had a Christian try to convert me again, and I have a question.

I think it is, in part, a matter of how open the dialogue is. Someone engaging in a conversion (or deconversion) attempt does not want an open dialogue. In fact, s/he doesn't want a dialogue at all. So no point in talking about it. Might as well shut down the de/conversion attempt and enjoy the silence.

And then, sometimes your religion is your own danged business and it's no good to talk about it at all.

On rare occasions, I have had conversations with Christians and agnostics that were intended to be open dialogues. There was nothing at stake in the sense of one of us having to prove the "merit" of our beliefs. These kinds of talks are great. In fact, the more we have the better off we all are as a species.

I agree with you completely.

[redschwegler]

Re: Had a Christian try to convert me again, and I have a question.

In the Norse mythos there are stories of thor protecting mortals, odhinn gave us wisdom and poetry (creativity) and at ragnarok they will all die to save us from annihilation, but thats not yet happened. idk if any of that would be useful to you. or you can counter that though jesus was crucified, he didnt have much choice, and tho he purportedy died for humanities sins, they hold the belief that babies who die before being baptised are send to limbo. which sounds like the work of a cruel god to me.

[anunitu]

Re: Had a Christian try to convert me again, and I have a question.

I just watched South park and they kinda hit this AND the gov spying on you in one funny thing with Butters. Catch it if you can.

[Dez]

Re: Had a Christian try to convert me again, and I have a question.

This actually reminds me of a quote someone shared in reddit a while back. It keeps popping back into my head as a mantra for dealing with my family. To paraphrase:

"Arguing with a dogmatic believer is like trying to play chess with a chicken. No matter what you do, the chicken's going to crap all over the board and then strut around like it won."

[Immersion]

Re: Had a Christian try to convert me again, and I have a question.

As a non-practicing Catholic (at the moment) I've found that a lot of Christians get caught up believing in the system (the Church aka the political organization) and NOT the faith. The Christian faith offers so much and is spiritually enriching. Believing in the Church results in following rigid dogmatic* structures.

*Dogma has recently developed a bad rap. I don't believe this is entirely the case. There is plenty of dogma in both Christianity and other religions which is good, or rather nobody has any problems with.

[Dez]

Re: Had a Christian try to convert me again, and I have a question.

Makes sense to me, Immersion. I think for many like me, it's not so much the existence of dogma, as the extreme authoritarianism and smug dismissal of everyone else's dogma. Does that make sense?

For example, over the past six months I've had a series of emails between myself and a family member. The synopsis would be as follows:

Her: I'm so confused that you left the church!
Me: Well, here are reasons 1, 2, and 3 why...I'd prefer not to talk about this, but if you want me to answer questions, I will.
Her: This is because you didn't get a proper religious education. I'm sure if you just understood a bit better you'd come right back.
Me: No, actually...here's all this research I did.
Her: Then you just need to trust in God! Don't you trust him?
Me: Nope, don't trust him. Everything he does in the OT says he is not worthy of my trust.
Her: But you just have to have faith...you'll never believe unless you decide to let go of everything and just believe in him. Then he'll show you!
Me: That's bad logic. If you want to provide proof and references for your claims, I'd be happy to continue this conversation.
Her: I think we should talk about something else(and you're clearly loosing this conversation because you won't let faith into your life)
Me: *smacks her head on the desk repeatedly*

Chess with a chicken.

[MyValenwind]

Re: Had a Christian try to convert me again, and I have a question.

I agree with a lot of the people here that are saying not to buy into her antics.
Something that would be good for her is to know that not all of the Gods are the same, and if anything, Jesus is more like some of them. I emphasize that because there were obviously many deities before Jesus. Gotta throw the burden of proof back at her; just because a deity isn't a sacrificial deity doesn't mean they're not worthy of respecting or worshipping.

[Immersion]

Re: Had a Christian try to convert me again, and I have a question.

Makes sense to me, Immersion. I think for many like me, it's not so much the existence of dogma, as the extreme authoritarianism and smug dismissal of everyone else's dogma. Does that make sense?

For example, over the past six months I've had a series of emails between myself and a family member. The synopsis would be as follows:

Her: I'm so confused that you left the church!
Me: Well, here are reasons 1, 2, and 3 why...I'd prefer not to talk about this, but if you want me to answer questions, I will.
Her: This is because you didn't get a proper religious education. I'm sure if you just understood a bit better you'd come right back.
Me: No, actually...here's all this research I did.
Her: Then you just need to trust in God! Don't you trust him?
Me: Nope, don't trust him. Everything he does in the OT says he is not worthy of my trust.
Her: But you just have to have faith...you'll never believe unless you decide to let go of everything and just believe in him. Then he'll show you!
Me: That's bad logic. If you want to provide proof and references for your claims, I'd be happy to continue this conversation.
Her: I think we should talk about something else(and you're clearly loosing this conversation because you won't let faith into your life)
Me: *smacks her head on the desk repeatedly*

Chess with a chicken.

Dez,

Sorry to hear you have to endure this. Unfortunately, it seems, that while some peoples' beliefs are true to them they forget that others may not share the same beliefs/perspectives. Instead of a willingness to learn and understand (essentially be open-minded about different beliefs) some people fear what's different and others, like this family member, try to illogically reason with you. Some people get so wrapped up in faith that they forget about reason, unfortunately. The more I look around the more I observe this.

[thalassa]

Re: Had a Christian try to convert me again, and I have a question.

*Dogma has recently developed a bad rap. I don't believe this is entirely the case. There is plenty of dogma in both Christianity and other religions which is good, or rather nobody has any problems with.

Dogma is all well and good, until one is dogmatic about it!

[nbdy]

Re: Had a Christian try to convert me again, and I have a question.

http://www.paganlibrary.com/fundies/other_people.php