is a soul capable of being split?

[Serria]

Re: is a soul capable of being split?

I'm pretty sure a split soul is one of the reasons people believe in soul mates. Soul mates are allegedly a soul that was torn in half and the two halves go throughout life trying to find the other. If they do, the love is stronger than any and more passionate..

A soul mate sounds kind of nice but difficult to find.

[Tarn]

Re: is a soul capable of being split?

I'm pretty sure a split soul is one of the reasons people believe in soul mates. Soul mates are allegedly a soul that was torn in half and the two halves go throughout life trying to find the other. If they do, the love is stronger than any and more passionate..

A soul mate sounds kind of nice but difficult to find.

I couldn't agree more with a soul mate being difficult to find.

Thanks for this viewpoint. I had never considered this possibility. I had always looked at soul mates, and other people who seem to be drawn to each other, as having bound their spirits (souls) together in a past life. Be it two lovers, two (or more) really good friends, or some form of family. Whoever they were, and for whatever reason they had, they bound their spirits together so that they would encounter each other in future lives; and maybe even in the underworld (spirit realm).

I had never considered it to be parts of one spirit. Thanks.

[Rae'ya]

Re: is a soul capable of being split?

what do you believe is the nature of a soul? is it solid, unchangeable, unbreaking? or is it capable of being split, molded, and changed?

Complicated question. lol

Here are my thoughts...

To me the soul matrix is made up of many parts... ranging from the physical body to the personal identity. One of these parts... the 'fylgja', has the express purpose of splitting off and faring forth on it's own, if you have the skills to develop it to do so. The other parts are pretty integral to the functioning of the human construct. If one of them goes missing, then catatosis, coma or death would likely follow. Aside from the 'fylgja', I don't think that you can split the major parts of the soul and continue walking around. For example... if the 'hame' gets stuck in the Otherworlds when faring forth then you're going to whither and die. And even though the 'fylgja' can be temporarily or even permanently split off, if it is killed or dies then you die.

We refer to something called 'soul fragmentation' in shamanic circles, but the definition of what this actually is varies. MonSno talked about this at length, though I admit that I didn't read all of his responses. Remembering previous shamanism conversations we've both been involved with elsewhere, I probably agree with most of what he said. But I'll clarify the specifics relating to my particular cultural context...

To me, soul fragmentation is not the major sections of the soul being split or broken off... it is smaller aspects of the self that can be lost, buried or taken. It is chunks of the parts of the soul, not the parts themselves... does that makes sense? While it is possible to trap a journeying 'hame' and therefore render a person comatose or dead, that's not the sort of soul loss that we're talking about here. Soul fragmentation requiring soul retrieval is more like having a chunk of your 'hame' bitten off and returning to your 'lich' or physical body damaged (like having a toe bitten off). It can also be sections of the identity, or parts of ourselves that we feel have been lost or damaged, like courage, confidence or our ability to change. Traumatic events, abuse, neglect, self hate and internal defense mechanisms are usually the cause of this sort of thing. It's also possible to give parts away during co-dependent relationships or have pieces taken by abusive or opportunistic people, or by magickal or shamanic practitioners with the skill to steal sections of your soul or cause damage via a curse.

Again, we say 'sections of the soul' or 'soul parts' but these are not the big, major parts of the soul. They aren't the body, mind, spirit like Corbin was talking about... you can't lose those big parts and survive.

Soul fragments like this are often buried or lost in the Innerworlds rather than the external Otherworlds, and I fully believe that most soul retrievals take place there. That's why many core shamanists who've never stepped foot in the external Otherworlds are very successful at doing soul retrievals for people. It's also why people can do soul retrievals for themselves, or why these pieces can be coaxed back by psychologists and self help gurus.

for example, if someone has multiple personalities. would each personality have a section of the soul? would they be reborn in the afterlife? or would they rejoin the whole once the body died? do they all share a soul, or do they each have a section of it? does the soul split with the mind, or is it a constant whole?

As to the original example... I don't believe that Dissociative Identity Disorder is a split soul, but a split identity. Our identity is one part of the soul complex, and I think that it is capable of being split and separated. All the identities are parts of the one person, the one soul complex... they can be reintegrated during life, and presumably after death. We all have parts of our identity that are semi-separate from the others to varying degrees... think of your 'work persona' and your 'home persona' and your 'out with friends persona'. To some extent, the splitting of the identity is a natural thing, it's just that sometimes it is done to an extreme.

Either way, I don't think that DID and similar conditions are a splitting of the soul. They also aren't really soul fragmentation like I was talking about above... similar but not quite the same.

[Tarn]

Re: is a soul capable of being split?

... It's also possible to give parts away during co-dependent relationships ...

Do you believe that this could happen in a relationship that is NOT co-dependent as well? That is to say in a situation where "Ann" is giving support to "Barb". For example, Barb has lost her will to "continue on with ... (life, work, relationship, whatever). Ann being a strong and compassionate person decides to give her support. Ann's desire to help Barb is strong enough that Ann is willing to give a part of her spirit to Barb until Barb is able to "continue" on her own. This would be a willing transfer of a fragment of the spirit, or soul. Kind of like if Barb did not have enough food to eat, and Ann had more than she can eat, Ann would willingly give Barb some of her food.

Basically, I'm asking can people willingly give away a fragment through free will? Note: I view giving it away in a co-dependent relationship as being more of a compulsion than an act of free will.

Oh, and an after thought here. Could Ann's fragment become "trapped" with Barb? Obviously if Barb has the abilities to keep, or steal it than she could do that (you've already stated that). And if Ann forgets to reclaim it, kind of like loaning her Iron Butterfly Live album to Barb and never asking for it back, the fragment may remain with Barb. But what could happen to prevent Ann from reclaiming her fragment when she felt it was time to get it back? Could it be that Ann knows how to give, but hasn't quite figured out how to retrieve? Could Barb be "hanging on" to it? Or is this not possible?

Thanks in advance.

[Rae'ya]

Re: is a soul capable of being split?

Do you believe that this could happen in a relationship that is NOT co-dependent as well? That is to say in a situation where "Ann" is giving support to "Barb". For example, Barb has lost her will to "continue on with ... (life, work, relationship, whatever). Ann being a strong and compassionate person decides to give her support. Ann's desire to help Barb is strong enough that Ann is willing to give a part of her spirit to Barb until Barb is able to "continue" on her own. This would be a willing transfer of a fragment of the spirit, or soul. Kind of like if Barb did not have enough food to eat, and Ann had more than she can eat, Ann would willingly give Barb some of her food.

Theoretically, yes, but there wouldn't be much point in doing that. A soul fragment can not necessarily be used by another person in the sense that you are talking. So while it would be theoretically possible, why would you bother? In your example, Barb wouldn't just be able to take up Ann's soul fragment, absorb it into her own soul complex and carry on with life. Think of it like a transplanted organ... I suppose a very skilled shamanist or magician would be able to use another person's soul fragment, particularly if they had spirit-help in transplanting it, but it's not really a done thing. It would be much more likely that Barb becomes an unwitting psychic vampire in order to get the support that she needs.

Basically, I'm asking can people willingly give away a fragment through free will? Note: I view giving it away in a co-dependent relationship as being more of a compulsion than an act of free will.

Yes they could, and a lot of co-dependent relationships are actually a willing exchange of soul fragments... but it's not usually in order to strengthen the other person. Sometimes it's a strengthening of the bond between two people... giving yourself completely to a person, that sort of thing. The thing about this type of soul fragmentation is that it's not like a couple are sitting there going "I'm gonna break off a chunk of my soul and give to to you"... it's an unconscious psychological phenomenon that can be triggered by dependency issues, emotional connection, trauma, unhealthy relationships etc.

Oh, and an after thought here. Could Ann's fragment become "trapped" with Barb? Obviously if Barb has the abilities to keep, or steal it than she could do that (you've already stated that). And if Ann forgets to reclaim it, kind of like loaning her Iron Butterfly Live album to Barb and never asking for it back, the fragment may remain with Barb. But what could happen to prevent Ann from reclaiming her fragment when she felt it was time to get it back? Could it be that Ann knows how to give, but hasn't quite figured out how to retrieve? Could Barb be "hanging on" to it? Or is this not possible?

Yes it could definitely become trapped, and that seems to be what happens a lot of the time. The piece is taken or given (consciously or unconsciously) and then people are unable to claim it back. That's where soul retrieval comes into play. There's a very good book by Sandra Ingerman called 'Soul Retrieval, Mending the Fragmented Self' which talks about this sort of soul loss and retrieval.

And again, I just want to point out that this sort of soul fragmentation is not large sections of actual soul or spirit being taken. And ironically, although it is a shamanic thing, many of the soul fragments like this are buried or lost in the Innerworlds rather than the external, home-of-the-spirits Otherworlds. That's why psychology and self help etc can coax them back. Unfortunately, there are many shamanists who don't make that distinction when talking or writing about their work (largely because many believe that the Innerworlds ARE the Otherworlds, or don't believe in external Otherworlds and therefore use that term to describe the Innerworlds).

[Aphrodite's heart]

Re: is a soul capable of being split?

I believe that souls are able to be split. Mine is after all. Some things dealing with my past lives though please don't ask unless we're in private messaging.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: is a soul capable of being split?

I'm pretty sure a split soul is one of the reasons people believe in soul mates. Soul mates are allegedly a soul that was torn in half and the two halves go throughout life trying to find the other. If they do, the love is stronger than any and more passionate..

A soul mate sounds kind of nice but difficult to find.

That is actually a fairly recent position. Soul Mates and Twin Soul aspects seemed to really kick off with the New Age stuff more so than any pagan / occultist stuff that came prior to the mid 1980's and early 1990's. Seems to tie into their prevailing notion of a perfect harmony and balance of things with all the love and light. Granted some trace the New Age movement back to the spiritualist movement of the late 1890's early 1900's but at best it seems term wise only as many of the terms are the same yet the definitions of them are quite different.

In many early works twin souls might be best described as conflicting souls who struggle against one another over and over. You see it in the antagonist / protagonist cycle that carries on between certain houses, families or clans.