Re: Why is the Serpent punished for telling the truth
I'd just like to clarify a few things here, because the Bible is actually fairly explicit on most of the points being debated here...
1) There are TWO 'special' trees in the Garden of Eden. The Tree of Life, and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Bad:
Genesis 2:9 "And from the ground the Lord God caused to grow every three that was pleasing to the sight and good for food, with the Tree of Life in the middle of the garden, and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Bad."
2) God said that you will die immediately upon eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge:
Genesis 2:16-17 "And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you are free to eat; but as for the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Bad, you must not eat of it; for as soon as you eat of it, you shall die.""
3) God did not throw them out of the Garden of Eden because they disobeyed him. Adam's punishment was to have to till the earth for himself and work for his meals "until you return to the ground". Eve was cursed to suffer pain in childbirth and the serpent was cursed to have to crawl on it's belly and eat dirt. The latter two were also cursed that their children should forevermore hate and fear each other. I can quote that passage but it's fairly long.
4) They were only thrown out of Eden because God was afraid:
Genesis 3:22-23 "And the Lord God said, "Now that man has become like one of us, knowing good and bad, what if he should stretch out his hand and take also from the Tree of Life and eat, and live forever!" So the Lord God banished him from the garden of Eden, to till the soil from which he was taken.
5) God then places a guard on "the way to Tree of Life", not the Tree of Knowledge.
6) The only mention about the nature of the serpent is that it is the most shrewd of creatures. Any speculation as to the identity of the serpent is just that... speculation. Presumably it was not in the form of a serpent at that point, because it is not until it is cursed that it is forced to crawl on it's belly and bite at the ankles of human children. I was always a bit confused about the eating dirt part though... snakes obviously don't eat dirt. lol.
It's pretty clear from the actual words of the Bible (technically, these are quoted from my Tanakh, but my King James and Good News Bibles agree almost to the letter) that Adam and Eve are NOT already immortal, but that eating from the Tree of Life would make them immortal, a possibility which YHVH fears. God's punishment speech to Adam suggests that Adam would have eventually 'returned to the dust' regardless of his eating of the Tree of Knowledge.
Unfortunately there is no qualifier of 'good' or 'bad' and that is possibly an oversimplification due to translation. However. I don't have an original Hebrew Bible so I can't say what the original language of the Bible says. I do know that my Tanakh was translated from a Hebrew text rather than a Greek translation (which is what many English translations were made from). There is much talk in the passages of 'having their eyes opened', 'knowing good from bad', 'becoming like one of the divine beings' and 'becoming like one of us'. Otherwise the only mention is that before they ate, they were naked but felt no shame, and after they ate, they realised they were naked and wanted to cover up.
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Having said all that, I realise that I should probably say what my actual opinion on the matter is.
I'm a animist and a hard polytheist, and to me, YHVH is a deity like any other, who exists in his own little corner of the Otherworlds and who has the ability to exert some influence here in this world. I tend to look at the Bible the exact same way I look at the Poetic Edda or any other primary mythological source. So my personal opinion is as follows...
YHVH created his little corner of the Otherworlds from scratch... 'his world' so to speak. In there was the Garden of Eden, and he made a few people to kick start his own personal race of devotees, and he stuck them in the Garden. He made their life cushy and idyllic and handed them everything on a silver platter. He told them not to eat of the Tree of Knowledge, presumably because he didn't want them to be like the other gods and know good from bad. They disobeyed him and he was upset about that, so he punished them and made them work for their supper. Then he got scared that they would also go and eat from the Tree of Life, which would make them immortal AND know good from bad. Obviously this wasn't part of his plan for his personal race of devotees and so he kicked them out of the Garden as a preventative measure. Thus they went from existing in YHVH's Otherworld to having to eke out a living here in Thisworld.
I'd just like to clarify a few things here, because the Bible is actually fairly explicit on most of the points being debated here...
1) There are TWO 'special' trees in the Garden of Eden. The Tree of Life, and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Bad:
Genesis 2:9 "And from the ground the Lord God caused to grow every three that was pleasing to the sight and good for food, with the Tree of Life in the middle of the garden, and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Bad."
2) God said that you will die immediately upon eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge:
Genesis 2:16-17 "And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you are free to eat; but as for the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Bad, you must not eat of it; for as soon as you eat of it, you shall die.""
3) God did not throw them out of the Garden of Eden because they disobeyed him. Adam's punishment was to have to till the earth for himself and work for his meals "until you return to the ground". Eve was cursed to suffer pain in childbirth and the serpent was cursed to have to crawl on it's belly and eat dirt. The latter two were also cursed that their children should forevermore hate and fear each other. I can quote that passage but it's fairly long.
4) They were only thrown out of Eden because God was afraid:
Genesis 3:22-23 "And the Lord God said, "Now that man has become like one of us, knowing good and bad, what if he should stretch out his hand and take also from the Tree of Life and eat, and live forever!" So the Lord God banished him from the garden of Eden, to till the soil from which he was taken.
5) God then places a guard on "the way to Tree of Life", not the Tree of Knowledge.
6) The only mention about the nature of the serpent is that it is the most shrewd of creatures. Any speculation as to the identity of the serpent is just that... speculation. Presumably it was not in the form of a serpent at that point, because it is not until it is cursed that it is forced to crawl on it's belly and bite at the ankles of human children. I was always a bit confused about the eating dirt part though... snakes obviously don't eat dirt. lol.
It's pretty clear from the actual words of the Bible (technically, these are quoted from my Tanakh, but my King James and Good News Bibles agree almost to the letter) that Adam and Eve are NOT already immortal, but that eating from the Tree of Life would make them immortal, a possibility which YHVH fears. God's punishment speech to Adam suggests that Adam would have eventually 'returned to the dust' regardless of his eating of the Tree of Knowledge.
Unfortunately there is no qualifier of 'good' or 'bad' and that is possibly an oversimplification due to translation. However. I don't have an original Hebrew Bible so I can't say what the original language of the Bible says. I do know that my Tanakh was translated from a Hebrew text rather than a Greek translation (which is what many English translations were made from). There is much talk in the passages of 'having their eyes opened', 'knowing good from bad', 'becoming like one of the divine beings' and 'becoming like one of us'. Otherwise the only mention is that before they ate, they were naked but felt no shame, and after they ate, they realised they were naked and wanted to cover up.
- - - Updated - - -
Having said all that, I realise that I should probably say what my actual opinion on the matter is.
I'm a animist and a hard polytheist, and to me, YHVH is a deity like any other, who exists in his own little corner of the Otherworlds and who has the ability to exert some influence here in this world. I tend to look at the Bible the exact same way I look at the Poetic Edda or any other primary mythological source. So my personal opinion is as follows...
YHVH created his little corner of the Otherworlds from scratch... 'his world' so to speak. In there was the Garden of Eden, and he made a few people to kick start his own personal race of devotees, and he stuck them in the Garden. He made their life cushy and idyllic and handed them everything on a silver platter. He told them not to eat of the Tree of Knowledge, presumably because he didn't want them to be like the other gods and know good from bad. They disobeyed him and he was upset about that, so he punished them and made them work for their supper. Then he got scared that they would also go and eat from the Tree of Life, which would make them immortal AND know good from bad. Obviously this wasn't part of his plan for his personal race of devotees and so he kicked them out of the Garden as a preventative measure. Thus they went from existing in YHVH's Otherworld to having to eke out a living here in Thisworld.
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