Science vs Religion: Whats the difference?

[Sirius]

Re: Science vs Religion: Whats the difference?

Neither science nor religion want you to believe anything. They are broad categories for types of societal institutions that lack the capacity for consciousness to engage in directed activities. Now, the individuals leading some of those institutions may or may have an agenda that they wish for one to believe in, or not...but that is largely irrelevent to the concept of "proof".

And by "proof", I mean an overwhelming body of data that supports an idea or concept...and by "body of data", I mean individual facts. The difference between the two is empirical.

This is quickly turning into a metaphysical debate, which is cool. Believe what you feel, and things will be alright.

[ChainLightning]

Re: Science vs Religion: Whats the difference?

This is quickly turning into a metaphysical debate, which is cool. Believe what you feel, and things will be alright.

What the....

What is that supposed to mean? Turning metaphysical where? How so?

What Thal said is that neither religion NOR science is asking people to simply believe what they tell them. How is that heading off into the metaphysical? By any stretch?

[thalassa]

Re: Science vs Religion: Whats the difference?

I'm wondering where the metaphysical aspect of what is a fairly clearly defined and studied difference between the two concepts comes in myself...

[Sirius]

Re: Science vs Religion: Whats the difference?

Religion is metaphysical, it is beyound the bounds of physics, at least as we know it.

[thalassa]

Re: Science vs Religion: Whats the difference?

Religion is metaphysical, it is beyound the bounds of physics, at least as we know it.

I was under the impression that metaphysics was a philosophical study of the fundamental nature of existence. Science, until the development and emphasis of the scientific method, has historically been incredibly seeped in metaphysics via the discipline of natural philosophy.

Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy

Even leaving out the semanitc arguement, religion isn't beyond physics (or even science), so much as some of the practices and conculsions of specific religious groups and the object of their devotion is. One can "scientifically" (objective and concretely) study religions--their practices, their adherents, etc...what one cannot study is the existance, nature, etc of *God*, miracles, etc. But God (singular or plural) is not religion.

[Sirius]

Re: Science vs Religion: Whats the difference?

Science, religion and metaphysics all looking for the same answers. Some religions and scientists think they have the answer, and metaphysics tells me at least that it's not possible to know in the physical world.

When Stephen Hawking says God or Gods or a higher power did not create the universe, he doesn't know that for a fact. He is simply stating what he see's from what little he actually knows about the universe.
Religion and science have a lot more in common than they are willing to admit to themselves. Think of the light spectrum, on the left you have religion, and on the right you have science, but, they are both part of the spectrum.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Science vs Religion: Whats the difference?

Actually, it would be more correct to say that science (when done according to it's own internal rules) searches for the physical causes of events, while religion (in general - but there are exceptions) presents non-physical causes for physical events as a fait acompli.

[Dumuzi]

Re: Science vs Religion: Whats the difference?

Hmmm I think the problem is that when people think of science and religion, they automatically think of it in terms of science verses religion. As if they are opposites. Perhaps, if people stepped back for a second, they would stop misrepresenting both sides.

On one hand you get (religious) people who claim that science, just like religion, requires Faith, with a capital F. Which is a misrepresentation of science.

And on the other hand you get (non religious) people who claim that science is based on facts, while religion is another word for fairy tales. Which is a misrepresentation of religion.

(I know not all religious/non religious people think that)

Personally, I see them as two separate fields that can sometimes actually compliment each other. Religion is a way of life. Science is acquiring knowledge regarding a certain field through a specific method. And depending on your way of life, science can either confirm your religion, disprove your religion, or not apply at all to your religion.

[ChainLightning]

Re: Science vs Religion: Whats the difference?

That^. In a nutshell.


The two areas of study aren't out, trying to achieve the same goal. Though some [mis]interpret it that way. They aren't two sides to the same coin, at all. As much as I love Thal's graph (and look forward to seeing it posted ) I can't understand why people insist on putting both religion and science on the same scale. Though there have been overlapping expressions, and various events (conflicts, really) that should not have taken place, there is no reason for the two to be at odds with each other. Ever.

[thalassa]

Re: Science vs Religion: Whats the difference?

The two areas of study aren't out, trying to achieve the same goal.

I think I get what you are trying to say...but as a statement, I have to disagree with this...in a broad sense, they *are* trying to achieve the very same goal--to answer questions about life, and about our relevance, and to offer us ways in which to understand and engage in the world around us. Sure, the specific questions they a ask/answer may differ, and have completely different methodology of how to answer them (hence the "truth" of my favorite graph), but at the end of the day, science and religion (and when I say "religion" in this sense, in a sense, we should proly include include other subjective/abstract disciplines like art, literature, etc). are both tools that we wield to contemplate the world around us in a framework of our making. They just happen to have complete and utter opposite methodologies--which is why people think (and HAVE thought throughout (Western) history) in terms of evolution vs creationism, helio vs geocentric, etc--essentially, science vs religion.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Science vs Religion: Whats the difference?

my general and slightly extreme oversimplification

Religion involves Faith in a Truth that we can't conclusively prove

Science uses doubt as a tool to find truths that we can reliably reproduce if not prove beyond all possible doubt. I had enough science teachers quoting along the lines of

"No theory is ever proven, some of them are supported by available evidence, others are disproven"

that I don't think of science as FACT based. It is however based on what can consistently and reliably be reproduced.

[CttCJim]

Re: Science vs Religion: Whats the difference?

I'm a little surprised this thread didn't end with someone just saying, "Science produces measurable, testable results."
I'm not disparaging religion or metaphysics, you all know I'm as religious as anyone here and I routinely use energy work in my daily life. But I don't delude myself into thinking that my religious or metaphysical beliefs are empirically measurable.

[thalassa]

Re: Science vs Religion: Whats the difference?

I'm a little surprised this thread didn't end with someone just saying, "Science produces measurable, testable results."

that would be boring...

and, you forgot that those results need to be able to be replicated

I'm not disparaging religion or metaphysics, you all know I'm as religious as anyone here and I routinely use energy work in my daily life. But I don't delude myself into thinking that my religious or metaphysical beliefs are empirically measurable.

I don't think most of the people in this conversation would disagree with that.

[LadyGarnetRose]

Re: Science vs Religion: Whats the difference?

Something I learned a long time ago, Religion teaches WHY the world was made, Science explains HOW the world was made.

[ChainLightning]

Re: Science vs Religion: Whats the difference?

Something I learned a long time ago, Religion teaches WHY the world was made, Science explains HOW the world was made.

I love that. Clear, concise and it separates not only the methodology but the entire goal, of each. Nicely put, LGR!