Native American religion

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Native American religion

I figure that if knowledge is true, it belongs to anybody who can gain it, while if it is not true, there's little point in protecting it - except to claim exclusivity.

[Raphaeline]

Re: Native American religion

I figure that if knowledge is true, it belongs to anybody who can gain it, while if it is not true, there's little point in protecting it - except to claim exclusivity.

That's kind of how I feel about the situation.

Inviting non-natives into your heritage is simply impossible. They can study it, respect it, explore it but it will never become their heritage.

Of course it can't be their heritage, because heritage is something that is passed from ancestor to descendant. But I don't understand why their religious beliefs can't also be someone else's religious beliefs, granted that they do all that is necessary to convert. As Rowanwood said, in order to adopt a religion, one wouldn't be able to simply paste those beliefs onto their existing life, but I don't see why, if a convert wants to give up their previous life entirely in order to adhere to the required lifestyle, they should be kept from doing so.

It seems that if the religious beliefs of a culture are considered by them to be true, they would want to share that enlightenment with fellow humans, or at least wouldn't think it doesn't apply to anyone but themselves.

[Denarius]

Re: Native American religion

There is one, less well known, tribe that has taken to "adopting whites" or other nationalities, at least, into their mix.

Only one? I can name at least four, including the one I'm a part of. There are tons of small tribes that desperately need more people, small populations with a lack of diversity tend to lead to inbreeding relatively quickly.

Probably also has to do with the fact that for any given reservation, the closest cities and towns not a part of that reservation are going to have populations that are largely white. So the people from outside the tribe they deal with are usually white. Generally they only meet with other tribes during tribal meetups.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Native American religion

I find it strange that not a single person has mentioned that Native (First Nation or Aboriginal) peoples spiritual beliefs are like the cards in a deck. It involves social though, cultural norms and perspectives, ancestral roles, animism, totemism, and a thousand other things that merge to create a spiritual belief. You can't take an aspect of it and have it hold the same level of importance and influence without all of it being present. You can't become part of it for its not part and parcel to everything that makes up your cultural mindset. The simplest of ceremonies have a long detailed sequence of things that are both present and assumed to be known to both the viewer and participant.

The very title of this thread suggests an assumption of a singular notion of what spiritual belief is through out the 300 plus known nations in the US and Canada alone. Customs, traditions, cultural ethics and morality that varied greatly between various nations, tribes, clans, etc let alone regional differences.

It seems far to many read Sun Bear's Medicine Wheel material and come to think it reflective of all nations. If not Sun Bear then some other author who tries to pass themselves off as legitimate authors with a right to speak for various nations. Yet when you start to dig into those credentials you find a whole lot out simply to make a dollar.

[blue_coyote]

Re: Native American religion

It's not religion. It is spiritual. It is the soul, the blood; everyone before you, at your side, and yet to come. There are red men who are sickenly white and white men who have red souls.

All the different nations have their ways. All the tribes their ways. All the bands. All the clans.

You don't just demand to know about "religion". You are asking someone you have never seen before to strip themself naked before you and let you touch them.

I say, find history of the native cultures. Read "Black Elk Speaks" , "Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee". Read the histories of the plains and pueblos and the east coast nations, as well as those to the north, ingluit, tingluit, and who ever else lives up in them parts. Read the animal and creation stories. There is everything if you just want to learn. But you do not understand "native religion" by reading. Either it is your soul or it is not.

There are things that the "public" (outsiders) may see. There are things that are made for them that may or may not have meaning. There are sacred things, very sacred that must be fasted, prayed, and specially prepared for.

[thalassa]

Re: Native American religion

Something else to think about (in addition to what Monsno has said)...depending on where one lives (I live in coastal Virginia), the big question is...what Native American religion? The extant tribes native to this area are now Christians. Very little is known about the original religious practices of the Powhatan. And the little that is known, probably isn't enough to (re)build a set of religious beliefs from.

Or, which Native Americans? The US govt recognized over 500 tribes...and I'm certain there are many more than that. But, Native peoples here, just like people all around the world have evolved culturally too... What about civilizations like Cahokia? By the time Europeans showed up, they were already gone. What about those religious beliefs? Or the histories of thousands of other tribes, and their cultural and religious evolution?

There's really no such thing as "Native American religion"... Native Americans aren't a monolithic culture to have a monolithic religion. Also, because of the history of colonialism and mariginalization and displacement of Native Americans by Europeans, many groups aren't really in the mood to share...nor do I think that they (though I mostly agree with Corbin on the nature of knowlege) should be demanded to do so (and I have seen this before).

I happen to find certain aspects of different Native American cultures and religious symbolism interesting and inspiring...particularly when it come to developing a relationship with the land...but I'd never claim to be following a Native American path of any sort.

[MoonRaven]

Re: Native American religion

@mosno: That was what I was trying to say. Unsuccessfully apparently.

[Bjorn]

Re: Native American religion

Honestly, a lot of the "information" had has been bastardized, condensed, and all of it is second-hand at BEST. Unless you know someone in the tribe (and unless you're interested in the Oklevueha church http://nativeamericanchurches.org/ then you are not eligible to join any tribe -- you either are or you aren't) then the information in books and websites is going to be inaccurate.

Also, there are many, many, many different tribes throughout the entire Americas and most of them have their own creation stories, different meanings for different animals, and completely different mythologies.

The best place to go for information is straight to the source -- and be prepared to be turned away. Most First Nations people I've met are incredibly kind and generous and willing to allow you to be part of their rituals, but even they warned me of going to the tribe without an ambassador. They're not exactly secretive but this is living medicine that has been passed down for generations so you can understand why they would want to protect it. As for the trinkets you can buy, it's an easy way for some members to make money but they are not a universal item used through all tribes.

Honestly, I would read more about specific tribes and see which ones interest you the most. Then, I would study the land that they lived on and familiarize yourself with the topography, the wildlife, the seasons, and the history of what happened to that tribe.

[blue_coyote]

Re: Native American religion

I just need to add this correction for everyone. Apache, Cherokee, etc... are not "tribes" they are nations. It is nation, tribe, band, clan.

[Denarius]

Re: Native American religion

Well, there actually is an Apache tribe, it's just that Apache is also used to refer to a collection of specific tribes. I mean the Quinault Indian Nation is federally recognized as a tribe. And a lot of people in that group tend to use the word tribe to describe both the individual tribes as well the collection.

It's all just politics and pedantry anyway. People use tribe and nation pretty much interchangeably. Even then, mostly they just say Quinault, Quileute, Hoh, Makah, or whatever, followed by people. Quinault people, Makah people... Unless they are talking specifically about tribal politics. Even then, the word nation rarely comes into it.

[blue_coyote]

Re: Native American religion

A lot of the time the name translates to either "the people" or something close to it. ie dine means the people and is the proper name, instead of using the white spanish word of navajo, which is a bit derogatory. apache is actually a zuni word that means enemy.

[Louisvillian]

Re: Native American religion

I've never really been able to wrap my head around why certain religious beliefs belong to certain blood lines. Why does it apply to some religions and not others? You don't have to be born from Christians or Muslims in order to be one

Christianity and Islam, you have to keep in mind, are atypical examples of religions in the world. Most religions are part of the culture of the people who practise it. It's tied to the ethnic group itself, to their language, to their customs; they are ethnic religions. Universalistic religions, such as Christianity or Islam, have their own culture; one that becomes juxtaposed on top of the indigenous or ethnic culture--and sometimes crushes it.

tl;dr: most religions are ethnic religions; Christianity and Islam are some of the few that aren't.

[Heka]

Re: Native American religion

You can't become Adnyamathanya or Kaurna or anything here. Even the Aboriginals can't become them anymore. The last Adnyamathanya elders died about 20 years ago, and it's been about 60 years + since there have been any initiates. It just cannot be done where I'm living. In some of the more remote areas - eg. desert, central, people are still growing up with some of the Elders and the traditional ways of life, some are even learning English as a second language at school, but that's not the norm.

Pretty much you can't even learn about it. I've been interested in the Adnyamathanya because that's who my local people are, but it's all pretty much gone, and I would have no idea how to approach a person to learn anything. We still have the Dreamtime stories, but they are removed from context a lot of the time, and usually talk about people like the initiates, which you can't relate to because there aren't any anymore.


Note: This is all in reference to Australian Indigenous peoples. And as far as I know, there is no one trying to 'recreate' indigenous beliefs or practices, because they appear to have been wiped out pretty bloody quickly when white men landed here.

[Torey]

Re: Native American religion

You can't become Adnyamathanya or Kaurna or anything here. Even the Aboriginals can't become them anymore. The last Adnyamathanya elders died about 20 years ago, and it's been about 60 years + since there have been any initiates. It just cannot be done where I'm living. In some of the more remote areas - eg. desert, central, people are still growing up with some of the Elders and the traditional ways of life, some are even learning English as a second language at school, but that's not the norm.

Pretty much you can't even learn about it. I've been interested in the Adnyamathanya because that's who my local people are, but it's all pretty much gone, and I would have no idea how to approach a person to learn anything. We still have the Dreamtime stories, but they are removed from context a lot of the time, and usually talk about people like the initiates, which you can't relate to because there aren't any anymore.


Note: This is all in reference to Australian Indigenous peoples. And as far as I know, there is no one trying to 'recreate' indigenous beliefs or practices, because they appear to have been wiped out pretty bloody quickly when white men landed here.

As an ex-American Australian, I find it very interesting how the indigenous religious practices of the native peoples here in Australia are generally not a fixation of non-indigenous individuals looking to "revive" the ancient ways or to claim their genetic "right to practice" (as I have noticed that there are great many non-indigenous-looking people here whose great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather may have been Aboriginal and who claim, themselves, to thus be Aboriginal).

There is a similar vein in America - most everyone I have known in America claims to have Native American blood in their family tree - and some of these people believe that this entitles them to practice the religion of their ancestors. I just don't seem to see this "religious entitlement" amongst those descended from Aboriginal peoples here in Australia.

[Riothamus12]

Re: Native American religion

Does anyone know much about it? I don't hear about it very much/ Do they worship deities or just spirits? What are there beliefs? Does anyone practice it hear or know anyone that practices it? I'm guessing a lot of the Indian Reservations still practice it? Do they have any charms or magic to use as well? I know nothing of it except for the dreamcatcher they tend to use.

I ask this because it doesn't seem to be brought up very often so I was just wondering.

More correctly you should be asking about Native American religions, plural. Every tribe had their own spiritual practices and beliefs. There are of course similarities but Native American religions is a broad overarching category in a similar sense that Pagan is.