I am wondering what are the key differences between the 2. Isn't Lucifer Satan? Is Satan the name of the deity that theistic Satanists worship or is it just a title? Do they conflict with each other? I hear Luciferians are more passive than Satanists. There's a Church of Satan but is there a Luciferian Church. Please answer, especially if you happen to be a Luciferian or Satanist. Also are these considered Abrahamic religions. I mean, without Judaism and Christianity, we would not have had Luciferianism and Satanism, right?
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Re: Luciferianism and Satanism
Originally posted by Alienist View PostI am wondering what are the key differences between the 2.
Originally posted by Alienist View PostIsn't Lucifer Satan?
Originally posted by Alienist View PostIs Satan the name of the deity that theistic Satanists worship or is it just a title?
Originally posted by Alienist View PostDo they conflict with each other?
Originally posted by Alienist View PostI hear Luciferians are more passive than Satanists.
Originally posted by Alienist View PostThere's a Church of Satan but is there a Luciferian Church.
Originally posted by Alienist View PostPlease answer, especially if you happen to be a Luciferian or Satanist. Also are these considered Abrahamic religions.
I mean, without Judaism and Christianity, we would not have had Luciferianism and Satanism, right?
For those Theistic Satanists, such as myself, who believe in aspects of Judeo-Christian mythology, it may be more accurate to describe us as Jewish or Christian heretics. Certainly many Theistic Satanists (and perhaps Luciferians) acknowledge that their beliefs originate within Abrahamic traditions.
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Re: Luciferianism and Satanism
Pretty much there are 2 differences. There is Modern *where LaVeyan Satanism lives. And there is Traditional *where Luciferian Satanism lives. One is older the other is a more recent belief system.
Also LaVeyan Satanism tends to be Atheistic while traditional or Luciferian are theistic.
All the other differences I think are minor. They have more to do with the individual.
*didn't catch that post above me. What he said!Satan is my spirit animal
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Re: Luciferianism and Satanism
Interesting points Torey,thanks for the insight.MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED
all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.
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my new page here,let me know what you think.
nothing but the shadow of what was
witchvox
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Time Lord Apostle
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Re: Luciferianism and Satanism
I've actually learned quite a bit from this thread. Thank you Torey! I'd be curious to hear more about what theistic Satanists who are Abrahamic think about the beliefs of other Abrahamic faiths.
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Opinionated
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Re: Luciferianism and Satanism
Torey has pretty much covered it, and I second everything he said, but I just want to add a bit of detail to the question of Lucifer vs Satan...
Originally posted by Alienist View PostIsn't Lucifer Satan?
There is fairly compelling evidence that the name Lucifer never referred to an angel at all, but to a Babylonian king, as Torey explained. The name became attached to a fallen angel through miscommunication and the same sort of generalised devilisation that caused Demons like Beelzebub and Asmodeus, as well as the title Baal, to be identifying with Satan.
Originally posted by Alienist View PostIs Satan the name of the deity that theistic Satanists worship or is it just a title?
Some Theistic Satanists speculate on the original identity of Satan, with varying results. This is where you will see the idea that Enki IS Satan, or some such. Some use 'Satan' as a title that can be applied to deities in other pantheons that fill the Adversary archetypal role, such as Enki, Loki, Set etc. Therefore you can never really be sure what each individual Satanist means when they talk about their deity.
Personally I use the term 'Satan' in two ways. I use 'Satan' as the title-and-honorific-turned-name to refer to the entity who held the job of ha-satan at the time of the Fall. We don't know his name, so we call him by his title, which is actually not an inaccurate thing to do at all. I also use the term 'ha-satan' or 'ha-Satan' as a title that can theoretically be applied to any of the deities that fulfill the Adversary archetypal role. Having said that, I rarely use this term in actual conversation, because it tends to confuse people.
Originally posted by Alienist View PostAlso are these considered Abrahamic religions. I mean, without Judaism and Christianity, we would not have had Luciferianism and Satanism, right?
Plus you also need to remember the difference between Theistic Satanists and LaVeyan Satanists. It's not really enough to say 'Satanist' and make questions or comments about what they believe, because the two branches are vastly, vastly different. I'm talking about Theistic Satanism here... LaVeyan Satanism is a whole other kettle of fish.
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Re: Luciferianism and Satanism
Originally posted by Malflick View PostI've actually learned quite a bit from this thread. Thank you Torey! I'd be curious to hear more about what theistic Satanists who are Abrahamic think about the beliefs of other Abrahamic faiths.
I do consider myself to be Abrahamic in regards to the origins of my belief. As I often say, I would most certainly be Jewish if I had ever accepted the authority of YHWH.
As for the beliefs of other Abrahamic faiths, I am actually quite interested - I enjoy discussing Jewish (and Christian) mythology, but unfortunately (as a Theistic Satanist), I often feel unwelcome in both the Neo-Pagan and the Abrahamic community, so I shy away from engaging in such discussions. Probably half of the books on my shelf are purely Jewish books - I have a collection of Bibles, as well.
I am very tolerant when it comes to those of Judeo-Christian traditions. I do wholly reject the authority of YHWH, and did (naturally) go through quite a phase of using anti-Christian symbolism in my practices, but have since moved beyond that.
An interesting aspect, if I may add, of my beliefs is that I do accept most of the mythology of the origins of the Universe in regards to Jewish mythological tradition. To clarify, I basically regard "the Creator of the Universe" and YHWH to be two different entities altogether, so I accept much of Creation mythology without attributing it to the "Judeo-Christian deity commonly referred to as God". The Creator, IMHO, is something that I refer to as The All (a throwback to my Wiccan days) and I believe that this entity is something more akin to a semi-sentient Energetic life force within the Universe that is both transcendent and immanent than an anthropomorphic deity.
In that, I suppose I have quite a great bit of belief in common with some Jews and Christians.
More specifically, what I think of practitioners of actual Abrahamic (traditional) religions is...how to put this...that they may be right about a lot of things, but wrong about others (IMHO); however, I wouldn't project my beliefs onto them - after all, everyone is entitled to take what they will from Biblical scriptures.
Originally posted by MedusaTheistic Satanists are so much more interesting and full of glam and glitter. I got nuttin over here. I aint even got a god.
*cries in the atheist corner
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Re: Luciferianism and Satanism
Duce,you can have some cosmic energy to play with,I have plenty..MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED
all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.
sigpic
my new page here,let me know what you think.
nothing but the shadow of what was
witchvox
http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html
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Re: Luciferianism and Satanism
Pretty interesting answers. Thanks everyone! A lot of people that talked to me about this subject often say Satan is a fallen angel and the word Satan is his title, but Lucifer is his real name. From what I'm seeing Lucifer and Satan are 2 entirely different entities. Lucifer in Luciferianism I hear is almost kind of like Prometheus, wanting to bring enlightenment and knowledge to all and help humanity. If Lucifer and Satan are two different entities, what are there personalities and goals? I've seen Satanists here but I haven't seen any Luciferians here. Anyone have or worked with Lucifer?
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Re: Luciferianism and Satanism
One might delve into the "Watchers" and I think some would construe them as based on the Anunnaki,from Sumerian Myth. I read somewhere(Don't have a reference for you) That the Jews began their religious concepts from being exposed to Sumerian beliefs.MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED
all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.
sigpic
my new page here,let me know what you think.
nothing but the shadow of what was
witchvox
http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html
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Re: Luciferianism and Satanism
Originally posted by Alienist View PostIf Satan is a title, than was is Satan's real name in Theistic Satanism? Also how is he depicted? Lucifer in Luciferianism is often depicted as an angel or god of light.
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Re: Luciferianism and Satanism
Satan basically means adversary but it doesn't seem to mean evil. It's just means adversary. Enki is considered a Satan for defying Enlil, Set is a Satan for going against Osiris and Horus and Loki is a Satan for going against Odin and the others. I wonder if Prometheus could be considered a Satan for going against Zeus by giving fire to humans.
So really any deity that goes against another could be considered a Satan, so that means that Lucifer is a Satan even though people who worship Lucifer prefer to be called Luciferians.
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Re: Luciferianism and Satanism
Originally posted by Alienist View PostIf Satan is a title, than was is Satan's real name in Theistic Satanism? Also how is he depicted? Lucifer in Luciferianism is often depicted as an angel or god of light.
That being said, however, there are a few candidates for who the primary Satan of Judeo-Christian mythology could be. Many Theistic Satanists assert that His true name is Semjaza, one of the chief Grigori named in the Book of Enoch. Azazel, in terms of Jewish lore, is another candidate as well as Samael.
Regardless of what others believe His "true name" to be, within Theistic Satanism, Satan is often depicted as manifesting as a beautiful man. He is the bringer of Knowledge and champions spiritual and material freedom.
Originally posted by AlienistSatan basically means adversary but it doesn't seem to mean evil. It's just means adversary. Enki is considered a Satan for defying Enlil, Set is a Satan for going against Osiris and Horus and Loki is a Satan for going against Odin and the others. I wonder if Prometheus could be considered a Satan for going against Zeus by giving fire to humans.
So really any deity that goes against another could be considered a Satan, so that means that Lucifer is a Satan even though people who worship Lucifer prefer to be called Luciferians.
So I would not consider Loki, for example, to be a Satan - but I would consider Him to be a Satan-like figure instead.
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