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    #31
    Re: Idea for a game

    Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
    Pretty much this.

    NWoD still gleefully abuses stereotypes, just more often in the other lines while Mage goes with the Atlantean theme. How well it'd work is open to debate but a number of popular game lines have gleefully abused religious stereotypes.
    I would agree that many games gleefully abuse stereotypes. I think its lazy world building and I for one am not huge on encouraging it. I express my opinion with my money and my support and if something is too problematic, I don't give it my money.

    I think we should challenge game developers to be more inclusive, more creative and to tackle real world issues by creating groups/characters that can encourage healthy discussion, while not falling into cliche traps of who is good and who is evil.

    I think a game like this would be a step in the wrong direction, personally.

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      #32
      Re: Idea for a game

      Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
      Pretty much this.

      NWoD still gleefully abuses stereotypes, just more often in the other lines while Mage goes with the Atlantean theme. How well it'd work is open to debate but a number of popular game lines have gleefully abused religious stereotypes.
      Although for what it's worth, I'd still take the old Mage over the new one in a second. The old Mage might have been mildly offensive to me as a spiritual practitioner, but the new one was deeply offensive to me as a gamer and a fantasy fan.

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        #33
        Re: Idea for a game

        Originally posted by Rowanwood View Post
        I think we should challenge game developers to be more inclusive, more creative and to tackle real world issues by creating groups/characters that can encourage healthy discussion, while not falling into cliche traps of who is good and who is evil.
        Isn't that exactly what Alienist was trying to do?
        Trust is knowing someone or something well enough to have a good idea of their motivations and character, for good or for ill. People often say trust when they mean faith.

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          #34
          Re: Idea for a game

          Originally posted by Aeran View Post
          Although for what it's worth, I'd still take the old Mage over the new one in a second. The old Mage might have been mildly offensive to me as a spiritual practitioner, but the new one was deeply offensive to me as a gamer and a fantasy fan.
          I like new mainly because I hated consensus reality. I don't necessarily have an issue one way or another with the factions in OWoD but consensus reality annoyed me. NMage worldbuilding may leave something to be desired but it voided consensus reality.
          life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

          Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

          "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

          John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

          "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

          Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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            #35
            Re: Idea for a game

            Originally posted by Denarius View Post
            Isn't that exactly what Alienist was trying to do?
            Not in my opinion. The level of understanding someone would have to have for even one real world religion to be represented correctly bogles my mind. You can make a fictional faith two dimensional to discuss a specific issue -- like the Vulcan monks in Star Trek Enterprise who were hiding a spy installation to discuss hypocrisy and pacifism. But you turn those monks into Buddhists or Christians and no one can talk about the concept rationally anymore, because it becomes an offensive stereotype. No real world thing can be condensed into a few keywords and often can't be discussed without emotional overreactions. But creating something fiction to deal with a specific concern can then lead to realistic understanding, while distancing itself from the emotional and personal implications.

            There's nothing all people who identify as anything actually do. All Christians aren't monotheists or even theists at all, while some are vehemently so. How could you possibly represent them fairly using something like DnD rules?

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              #36
              Re: Idea for a game

              Originally posted by Rowanwood View Post
              How could you possibly represent them fairly using something like DnD rules?
              Already told you. Keep it simple. Abilities and traits. Things that are reflected in the lore. Healing through prayer, requesting miracles, etc. are all things that Christians attribute to Christianity.

              Specific beliefs, character traits, personality, that'd all on the player to bring to their character.

              Religions and their practitioners have shown up in all forms of media, stop being ridiculous. It is no different than having a character be a doctor, soldier, or teacher.

              I'd think that taking beliefs and slapping a fake name on it would be more insulting. The character heals people and diagnoses disease and injuries, he's a shmocter or a practitioner of shmedicine.
              Trust is knowing someone or something well enough to have a good idea of their motivations and character, for good or for ill. People often say trust when they mean faith.

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                #37
                Re: Idea for a game

                I also wanted to add that it doesn't have to be fantasy based at all really. It could take place in reality well for the most part anyway. What if it took place in a dystopian future run by a totalitarian group. Sort of like communists, except even more extreme. Does anyone remember how communists wanted to suppress religion? I think that would be an interesting setting, trying to practice your faith but also hide it as you hide from the secret police and so forth. And then the party can find out that the totalitarian group IS the evil cult and the entire reason why they want to suppress religion is that they want everyone to be faithless and not unlock their true power, so they will be the only ones to wield real magical power.

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                  #38
                  Re: Idea for a game

                  Speaking of, could I play as an atheist in your game? That'd be funny. Like the mime from Don't Starve.
                  Trust is knowing someone or something well enough to have a good idea of their motivations and character, for good or for ill. People often say trust when they mean faith.

                  Comment

                    #39
                    Re: Idea for a game

                    Originally posted by Denarius View Post
                    Speaking of, could I play as an atheist in your game? That'd be funny. Like the mime from Don't Starve.
                    Nope.

                    Just kidding, you most definitely can. I think that would be funny to have. Like having Atheists, Agnostics ect. but I am not entirely sure what the atheist could do, except maybe the atheist could be more tech saavy as opposed to using magic or spiritual power.

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                      #40
                      Re: Idea for a game

                      Atheists could be extra resistant to magic and faith based powers. Atheists and agnostics could easily have more practical skills. I mean throwing fireballs and turning water into wine is really cool, but a guy with a gun or a baseball bat can be just as much of a threat.

                      Plus, assuming the cultists they are after have some way of tracking the faithful they might be immune to that.
                      Trust is knowing someone or something well enough to have a good idea of their motivations and character, for good or for ill. People often say trust when they mean faith.

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                        #41
                        Re: Idea for a game

                        True. I think it would be interesting that blend of magic but also technology would do well, too. The cultists secretly running everything would be sort of like the Sith from Star Wars. Where they deploy armies, robots, drones and other technological things against the heroes and heroines, but when actually confronted, they would use supernatural powers, like the Sith uses the dark side of the force.

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                          #42
                          Re: Idea for a game

                          Oh boy Alienist, you are every bit as intellectual and wise as I foresaw based on the creation of this thread. I'd write more but I make a point of not arguing with people like you, as you can't fix stupid, and my wrist hurts. So have a good day, I imagine you will, ignorance is bliss.
                          White and Red 'till I'm cold and dead.
                          sigpic
                          In Days of yore,
                          From Britain's shore
                          Wolfe the dauntless hero came
                          And planted firm Britannia's flag
                          On Canada's fair domain.
                          Here may it wave,
                          Our boast, our pride
                          And joined in love together,
                          The thistle, shamrock, rose entwined,
                          The Maple Leaf Forever.

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                            #43
                            Re: Idea for a game

                            Originally posted by Doc_Holliday View Post
                            Oh boy Alienist, you are every bit as intellectual and wise as I foresaw based on the creation of this thread. I'd write more but I make a point of not arguing with people like you, as you can't fix stupid, and my wrist hurts. So have a good day, I imagine you will, ignorance is bliss.
                            Comments like this are not constructive to the thread, and are entirely rude and won't be tolerated. Please remember that member bashing is not tolerated on this forum (that message needs to be said only once, and I'm speaking to everyone).

                            Remember what your momma said. If you can't play nice, don't say anything at all.


                            Mostly art.

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                              #44
                              Re: Idea for a game

                              Fair enough, I apologize for an admittedly volatile set of posts, and a very bad mood.
                              White and Red 'till I'm cold and dead.
                              sigpic
                              In Days of yore,
                              From Britain's shore
                              Wolfe the dauntless hero came
                              And planted firm Britannia's flag
                              On Canada's fair domain.
                              Here may it wave,
                              Our boast, our pride
                              And joined in love together,
                              The thistle, shamrock, rose entwined,
                              The Maple Leaf Forever.

                              Comment

                                #45
                                Re: Idea for a game

                                Originally posted by Denarius View Post
                                Already told you. Keep it simple. Abilities and traits. Things that are reflected in the lore. Healing through prayer, requesting miracles, etc. are all things that Christians attribute to Christianity.
                                So, despite the fact that there are hundreds of sects of Christianity, some who don't believe in god, miracles or prayer...well, close enough?

                                WE have an ENTIRE FORUM dedicated to discussing religion, and we aren't even scratching the surface. I don't get how it's not obvious this is just a alarmingly bad idea.

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