Raising the dead just takes practice

[Malflick]

Re: Raising the dead just takes practice

The Bible is a book written by people. A lot of it isn't literal, and is allegorical. But there is a pretty fair difference between the allegorical bits and the ones telling a straight narrative account, even if for some of the narrative accounts there are conflicting accounts.

The Bible's book's had different authors, and these authors had different intents. Trying to lump the whole book together and saying that all of it is the same kind of narrative is a bit silly to me. This argument is a bit tired for me, because it rests upon underlying assumptions not only of how to interpret the Bible, but the people who are interpreting the book itself. Doc, and myself, both interpret the book a certain way, as does Ektor. But lets not go down the road that one of our interpretations is definitive please?

Anyways, there is this tendency to criticize people with alternative biblical interpretations for being contradictory when any Biblical interpretation is going to be contradictory in some fashion because of the piecemeal authorship of the book. I could quote off parts of the Bible that support Doc's religious views (for example, that until the Deuteronomists got their hands on the Old Testament the existence of other gods was not disputed in the text in all likely hood, and remnants of that remain within the text), but that still leaves the underlying problem that Doc is wrong because he is making an interpretation that one person's view of the Bible itself runs counter to. The Bible doesn't have to be the same book for everyone. For me, the New Testament trumps the Old at every opportunity, which is an interpretation that came from reading the text of the book itself, and I don't want to bore you all with how I got there, but I'm sure I've read it a different way than Doc, or Ektor, or Medusa.

It being contradictory doesn't make it any less holy, and it doesn't mean there aren't parts I think are literally true. It also doesn't mean I have to accept the unscientific worldview of an author thousands of years ago who didn't understand that there wasn't a giant metal dome in the sky the rain came through to appreciate what the author was trying to say beyond that.

Anyways, I'm going back to bed. Peace.

[Ektor]

Re: Raising the dead just takes practice

But that's precisely what I'm saying. You can't take it literally or as a whole, because it's a book, it's narrative just like a myth is narrative. It makes no sense to see the Bible as just one thing.

[Rick]

Re: Raising the dead just takes practice

But that's precisely what I'm saying. You can't take it literally or as a whole, because it's a book, it's narrative just like a myth is narrative. It makes no sense to see the Bible as just one thing.

No, YOU don't take it literally. It isn't your place to tell anyone else how to take it.

[Ektor]

Re: Raising the dead just takes practice

Given what I've seen happening when people start doing that, I'd say it is.

[anunitu]

Re: Raising the dead just takes practice

Here is the thing,these writings become "Holy script" because the author says he got them from god. Just because this prophet says he spoke to god,there is never any proof that he indeed did talk to a "God" We must take his word that god picked him out of the "Many" for a special communion. I think we ALL want to be "special" and connected to something "Above" ourselves and our short life span. If one decides to follow a belief,and take as "Holy" all that is said and written and it fills the void we feel as intelligent animals,then it could be considered a positive thing.

I would never question another's beliefs or faith because these things define our own personal natures. We are complex creatures we humans,not content to just "Exist" but to define ourselves the spawn of a "God"

Let the flaming begin,but I stand by my statements.

[Rick]

Re: Raising the dead just takes practice

Given what I've seen happening when people start doing that, I'd say it is.

And I say it isn't. Never, ever tell someone else what to believe.

[Doc_Holliday]

Re: Raising the dead just takes practice

Ektor you have no right to tell people what they can and can't take seriously. Especially with religious matters, what makes your beliefs more legitimate than others? Nothing.

[thalassa]

Re: Raising the dead just takes practice

So, I'm very much in the camp that it is impossible to literally believe every single thing the Bible says...simply because its often inconsistent and incorrect. My grandfather--himself a Bible-believing Christian, was often fond of saying that "Anyone that claims to believe every word of the Bible exactly as it is written is either a liar or a fool" for that very reason.

Once you start getting into the nitty gritty minutae of what the Bible says, there are tons of contradictions (lists upon lists of these are easily accessible via books by Bible scholars or internet lists, so I'm not even going to bother giving examples--15 minutes of Google + the words "bible contradictions" will offer plenty)...at some point, someone that says that they literally believe in every single word of the Bible, as written, has to reconcile in their own world view where these problems come from and how they should be resolved. Often these are explained as "translation errors" or "translation differences" or that a concept or terminology has changed, or that culture has changed, or that its a differing author's point of view, or whatever.

I completely get that people literally believe in the Bible. I'm okay with that until they use that belief to tell me what to do with myself via the legislative process. But. I'm not feeling, in the context of an open exchange of opinions about religious ideology, that ignoring the problem of someone that says that they don't just believe the Bible, but believe that it was 1) written by God, 2) is inerrant (as in without mistakes), and 3) should not be interpreted, but should be accepted as immutable fact as it is written. Sorry, but "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" and the Bible fails that test when it is interpreted in that fashion.

[iflewoverthecuckoosnest]

Re: Raising the dead just takes practice

I can't get the image of that woman praying over her bother's dead body, desperately trying to draw him back to life. It's depressing. The reality of death is hard to accept, for many of us. This sounds like yet another form of trying to rationalize it away.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Raising the dead just takes practice

I can't get the image of that woman praying over her bother's dead body, desperately trying to draw him back to life. It's depressing. The reality of death is hard to accept, for many of us. This sounds like yet another form of trying to rationalize it away.

Yes, it is sad, but, unfortunately, after reading about how they think they saw his finger move, all I can think of is the Monty Python parrot sketch - "He moved!" "No he didn't - he's pushing up the daisies!"

- - - Updated - - -

I can't get the image of that woman praying over her bother's dead body, desperately trying to draw him back to life. It's depressing. The reality of death is hard to accept, for many of us. This sounds like yet another form of trying to rationalize it away.

Yes, it is sad, but, unfortunately, after reading about how they think they saw his finger move, all I can think of is the Monty Python parrot sketch - "He moved!" "No he didn't - he's pushing up the daisies!"

[DON]

Re: Raising the dead just takes practice

2030... interesting date.

This is a rather unsettling article. A bit like the grave sucking that some evangelical groups have been doing lately.

I firmly believe that the vast majority of the scriptures is literal. I believe that the resurrection of Lazarus actually happened. But I don't recall anywhere where Jesus instructed his disciples to go out and do likewise. He did so with regards to healing, and sending demons into the pit...

In fact, from what I can gather, Christians are supposed to leave the dead be.

Yeah, nuts, seriously misguided, infiltrated, who knows...

[iflewoverthecuckoosnest]

Re: Raising the dead just takes practice

Yes, it is sad, but, unfortunately, after reading about how they think they saw his finger move, all I can think of is the Monty Python parrot sketch - "He moved!" "No he didn't - he's pushing up the daisies!"

- - - Updated - - -



Yes, it is sad, but, unfortunately, after reading about how they think they saw his finger move, all I can think of is the Monty Python parrot sketch - "He moved!" "No he didn't - he's pushing up the daisies!"

Hahaha, "No, no, no, he's stunned."

[Ektor]

Re: Raising the dead just takes practice

And I say it isn't. Never, ever tell someone else what to believe.

Ektor you have no right to tell people what they can and can't take seriously. Especially with religious matters, what makes your beliefs more legitimate than others? Nothing.

It's not about legitimacy of beliefs. My beliefs have nothing to do with this, the problem is that you are eternally responsible for the beliefs you hold to be correct. Just because someone believes in something that does not make the belief itself worth anything.

Everything is a belief, and do you really understand the repercussions of taking a literalist interpretation of that book? Are you really standing up for it? Because it's ripe with genocide, homophobia, war making, violence, slavery and all sorts of bigotry. I do not support those beliefs and I would go any length intelectually to debate people who do so. Those things are not only immoral, they're outright violent.

I have never said I'm against Christianity, I have nothing against monotheism or monogamy or the linear vision of time Christianity entails, the problem with it is the literal interpretation of a centuries old book ripe with bad things.

And to say "you cannot debate a hateful speech" is ridiculous, you're using a religious freedom argument to a book that says you'll be tortuted by eternity by believing in other deities. A Christian doesn't have to believe this, that people will burn in Hell. But the Bible says with all words that pagans and unbelievers, homosexuals, people who have casual sex, etc... will burn in hell and I do not accept this; it's hate speech against myself.

[Malflick]

Re: Raising the dead just takes practice

...Ektor, take a step back and read what people are saying here, rather than what you think they are saying. We're getting to a ridiculous point of talking on different levels here. You're making a lot of assumptions that people have never even hinted at in this conversation.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Raising the dead just takes practice

In order of entertainment

1) You have every right to disagree strongly with whatever the heck you please

2) Everyone else on the planet has every right to disagree with you

3) The rest of the planet has to put up with opinions they don't like from you, you're sort of stuck returning the favor

4) The above three statements hold true until opinions translate to actions where a whole different set of rules comes into play

5) Recent actions could be interpreted as the beginning of a thread derail. It would be advisable for all parties to avoid that course. This thread is NOT about Biblical innerrancy. It's about a handful of specific people, none of whom are Jesus Christ to my knowledge, believing that they can raise the dead with prayer. Whether or not Christ did such a thing is at best only tangentially related.