Last ditch attempt to demonize Mary Jane

[Aeran]

Re: Last ditch attempt to demonize Mary Jane

Source? Keep in mind that anything relying on the anti-marijuana act (and the Government documents that refer to it) are based completely on non-science (as is completely plain to anyone that bothers to read the thing. Their "conclusions" fly directly in the face of their findings, and the guy that was hired to write it has admitted as much).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24579344

[Psychiatric complications of cannabis use].

[Article in French]
Coscas S¹, Benyamina A², Reynaud M², Karila L³.
Author information

Abstract

Cannabis is the most widely used illicit substance, especially among young people. Cannabis use is extremely commonplace and frequently comorbid with psychiatric disorders that raise questions about the etiology. The use of cannabis is an aggravating factor of all psychiatric disorders. Psychiatric complications are related to the age of onset, duration of exposure and individual risk factors of the individual (mental and social health). The panic attack is the most common complication. The link with psychosis is narrow that leads to increased prevention for vulnerable populations. Cannabis is also an indicator of increased depressive vulnerability and an aggravating factor for bipolar disorder.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24483000
[Short-and long-term effects of cannabinoids on memory, cognition and mental illness].

[Article in Hebrew]
Sagie S¹, Eliasi Y², Livneh I³, Bart Y², Monovich E².
Author information

Abstract

Marijuana is considered the most commonly used drug in the world, with estimated millions of users. There is dissent in the medical world about the positive and negative effects of marijuana, and recently, a large research effort has been directed to that domain. The main influencing drug ingredient is THC, which acts on the cannabinoid system and binds to the CB1 receptor. The discovery of the receptor led to the finding of an endogenous ligand, anandamide, and another receptor-CB2. The researchers also discovered that cannabinoids have extensive biological activity, and its short and long-term effects may cause cognitive and emotional deficiencies. Findings show that the short-term effects, such as shortterm memory and verbal Learning, are reversible. However, despite the accumulation of evidence about long-term cognitive damage due to cannabis use, it is difficult to find unequivocal results, arising from the existence of many variables such as large differences between cannabis users, frequency of use, dosage and endogenous brain compensation. Apart from cognitive damage, current studies investigate how marijuana affects mental illness: a high correlation between cannabis use and schizophrenia was found and a high risk to undergo a psychotic attack. Furthermore, patients with schizophrenia who used cannabis showed a selective neuro-psychological disruption, and similar cognitive deficiencies and brain morphological changes were found among healthy cannabis users and schizophrenia patients. In contrast to the negative effects of marijuana including addiction, there are the medical uses: reducing pain, anxiety and nausea, increasing appetite and an anti-inflammatory activity. Medicalization of marijuana encourages frequent use, which may elevate depression.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24605939Therapeutic Potential of Cannabinoids in Schizophrenia.

Kucerova J, Tabiova K, Drago F, Micale V¹.
Author information

Abstract

Increasing evidence suggests a close relationship between the endocannabinoid system and schizophrenia. The endocannabinoid system comprises of two G protein-coupled receptors (the cannabinoid receptors 1 and 2 [CB1 and CB2] for marijuana's psychoactive principle Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol), their endogenous small lipid ligands (namely anandamide [AEA] and 2-arachidonoylglycerol [2-AG], also known as endocannabinoids), and proteins for endocannabinoid biosynthesis and degradation. It has been suggested to be a pro-homeostatic and pleiotropic signalling system activated in a time- and tissue-specific manner during pathophysiological conditions. In the brain, activation of this system impacts the release of numerous neurotransmitters in various systems and cytokines from glial cells. Hence, the endocannabinoid system is strongly involved in neuropsychiatric disorders, such as schizophrenia. Therefore, adolescence use of Cannabis may alter the endocannabinoid signalling and pose a potential environmental risk to develop psychosis. Consistently, preclinical and clinical studies have found dysregulations in the endocannabinoid system to alter blood and/or cerebrospinal fluid biochemistry. It has been proved that changed expressions of CB1 and CB2 receptors were linked to altered levels of AEA and 2-AG in the cerebrospinal fluid and/or blood. Thus, partial efficacy of antipsychotic compounds which manipulate this system may provide a novel therapeutic target for the treatment of schizophrenia. The present article reviews current available knowledge on herbal, synthetic and endogenous cannabinoids with respect to the modulation of schizophrenic symptomatology. Furthermore, this review will be highlighting the therapeutic potential of cannabinoid-related compounds and presenting some promising patents targeting potential treatment options for schizophrenia.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24509089Immune system: A possible nexus between cannabinoids and psychosis.

¹, ², Crespo-Facorro B³.
Author information

Abstract

BACKGROUND:

Endocannabinoid system is involved in the regulation of the brain-immune axis. Cannabis consumption is related with the development, course, and severity of psychosis. The epidemiological evidence for increased occurrence of immunological alterations in patients with psychosis has not been sufficiently addressed. The aim of this review is to establish whether there is any scientific evidence of the influence of cannabinoids on aspects of immunity that affect susceptibility to psychotic disorder induction.

METHODS:

A comprehensive search of PubMed/MEDLINE, EMBASE and ISI Web of Knowledge was performed using combinations of key terms distributed into three blocks: "immune", "cannabinoid", and "endocannabinoid receptor". Studies were considered to be eligible for the review if they were original articles, they reported a quantitative or qualitative relation between cannabinoid ligands, their receptors, and immune system, and they were carried out in vitro or in mammals, included humans. All the information was systematically extracted and evaluated.
RESULTS:

We identified 122 articles from 446 references. Overall, endocannabinoids enhanced immune response, whereas exogenous cannabinoids had immunosuppressant effects. A general change in the immune response from Th1 to Th2 was also demonstrated for cannabinoid action. Endogenous and synthetic cannabinoids also modulated microglia function and neurotransmitter secretion.

CONCLUSION:

The actions of cannabinoids through the immune system are quite regular and predictable in the peripheral but remain fuzzy in the central nervous system. Despite this uncertainty, it may be hypothesized that exposure to exocannabinoids, in particular during adolescence might prompt immunological dysfunctions that potentially cause a latent vulnerability to psychosis. Further investigations are warranted to clarify the relationship between the immunological effects of cannabis and psychosis.

etc etc. The exact connection isn't perfectly understood (although you could argue that nothing in psychiatry and neurochemistry is perfectly understood), but there's endless literature supporting a strong link between cannabis and mental illness and the role of cannabis as an aggravating factor in mental illness.

Again, not arguing against legalizing it, just saying that it should be done from a place of scientific understanding - trying to downplay the risks to bring about legalization would be no better than those who play up the risks to support the war on drugs or for their own purposes.

[anunitu]

Re: Last ditch attempt to demonize Mary Jane

I am thinking this could also apply to booze,and even perhaps to almost anything used to excess and not enjoyed in moderation.

[thalassa]

Re: Last ditch attempt to demonize Mary Jane

etc etc. The exact connection isn't perfectly understood (although you could argue that nothing in psychiatry and neurochemistry is perfectly understood), but there's endless literature supporting a strong link between cannabis and mental illness and the role of cannabis as an aggravating factor in mental illness.

My brother-in-law developed epilepsy and for a while used pot to self-medicate. Problem is, he ended up having an episode of what is known as excited delirium, Took being tazed 4 times and piled on by 6 cops to take him down...and the only reason they didn't shoot him was because my MIL was a retired cop. He's lucky--most people that this happen to end up dead. He's also lucky that when he was in the hospital, I'd heard of this and told hubby, and hubby told his mom, and his mom told his doctor, who happened to remember reading a journal article this one time....the cops there had never even heard of it (cops here, its part of their tazer certification training). Most research about excited delirium focuses on cocaine use and meth, etc...but there are enough cases out there that involve just pot use, that its not unusual....

[Roknrol]

Re: Last ditch attempt to demonize Mary Jane

etc etc. The exact connection isn't perfectly understood (although you could argue that nothing in psychiatry and neurochemistry is perfectly understood), but there's endless literature supporting a strong link between cannabis and mental illness and the role of cannabis as an aggravating factor in mental illness.

Again, not arguing against legalizing it, just saying that it should be done from a place of scientific understanding - trying to downplay the risks to bring about legalization would be no better than those who play up the risks to support the war on drugs or for their own purposes.

Thanks Aeran - that definitely gives me something to look over. The NIH claims to be science based, but I haven't actually found their studies on the site yet, so I'm holding off until I know a little bit more about how they've tested and what they've tested (after all, Asprin sometimes can cause death too - it all depends on the statistical data, which I'm unable to find ATM)

I do agree with anunitu though, in that most of what you've linked could be applied to virtually anything used in excess. Without the actual data (background information on the test subjects (not like names or anything, I'm not stupid, but I would assume that there would have to be a mental health exam prior to and following use, and if this is over a period of time, what other factors may have played into their "psychosis".

And now, here's the real question: Why is it anyone elses business if I want to make myself stupid or crazy? Obviously, if I hurt someone that's a problem - but I think that if that were a likely occurrance we would have heard a lot more about the crazy potheads raping villages and burning women

I absolutely agree that what we need is actual science and not propaganda (I speak from experience unless I actually have some supporting evidence that I can throw your way). The unfortunate side of that is that most of the places that actually do real scientific testing are getting funded by someone with an agenda (much like the initial push in '37), which throws the studies themselves into doubt (for example, I avoided linking anything from NORML, despite my belief that they are trustworthy, they obviously have a vested interest in proving one way or another).

Now, let's assume for a minute that everything that you quoted is above board and true. Does that make marijuana better, worse, or the same as other easily accessed drugs? Booze? What about over the counter stuff like Benadryl? Are the percentages of "problems" high enough to be concerned about? (as I mentioned above, Aspirin has some nasty side effects for some people, but the numbers are so small that it's considered insignificant - how many people have smoked weed regularly and gone crazy? I have no idea)

Which brings us back to my primary beef: If what I'm doing doesn't impact you (this is a general "you", of course), then what business is it of anyone's what I do? I think this is the main crux of it - there wouldn't be DUI laws if people were responsible about drinking...to me this says that the problem isn't the drug (whatever drug), but with people and their views of their own responsibility.

Meh, I'm going to smoke regardless, and I'll do so responsibly until I go crazy. When that happens I'll make sure my wife comes back in here to let y'all know After all, 20 years of working without weed made me pretty unstable...my friends and family members find me much easier to deal with now. Nobody is going to be making me go back to being a miserable piece of shit without a fight (I mean miserable both in how I feel, and how I treat others...it does so love company)

- - - Updated - - -

As a side note on the psychosis thing, LSD was touted for a long time as having horrible long term side effects, but it turns out that the people that had those side-effects during the CIA testing in the 60's either got the placebo (so they never actually took LSD, yet had long-term effects from it :-/ ), or had a history of psychosis already. (I'm not changing the topic, just trying to explain what I mean above a little better )

[Ektor]

Re: Last ditch attempt to demonize Mary Jane

Pretty much all of my friends smoke marijuana and I'm yet to see a single problem caused from the drug itself.

[Medusa]

Re: Last ditch attempt to demonize Mary Jane

Pretty much all of my friends smoke marijuana and I'm yet to see a single problem caused from the drug itself.

I'm all for pot being legalized for sure. For medical use. For private use.


But I've seen quite a few people be total f ups because of pot.

But.....I also think you wouldn't notice the ones who aren't either. So it's iffy.

[Clive]

Re: Last ditch attempt to demonize Mary Jane

I smoked pot until I discovered it triggered anxiety in myself. A few years later I started smoking again and all was fine, because I approached it with caution. In recent times I noticed it became a problem again, and stopped smoking. Self-reliance.

[Azvanna]

Re: Last ditch attempt to demonize Mary Jane

Pretty much all of my friends smoke marijuana and I'm yet to see a single problem caused from the drug itself.

For five of my friends who smoked pot, 3 of them ended up with mental health issues that weren't previously apparent. One committed suicide, one had a nervous breakdown and one has bipolar. The other one is just a very slow person intellectually and as he was a user when I met him, I'm not sure what came first!

I am thinking this could also apply to booze,and even perhaps to almost anything used to excess and not enjoyed in moderation.

It certainly does and it's not always just an issue of 'enjoyed in moderation' as some people chemically just don't have the capacity to self-moderate when it comes to substance consumption. I'm thinking of the alcohol restrictions placed on aboriginal communities in the Northern Territory in an attempt(?) to curb the breakdown of aboriginal social structure and health issues such as youth suicide.

To be honest, I really don't know what is better for the whole. I know there's research that reveals it seems safe for most people to use, despite the correlation between mental health issues and use. However, my experiences speak loudly to me and the use of marijuana hasn't been kind to anyone I know.

For my friend who committed suicide, it was 'just one joint' that set him on a path of total self-destruction. I wouldn't like to see more of these stories unfold.

I'm interested to know if people perceive synthetic drugs differently, why so, and how they would feel about the legalisation of those recreational drugs? Where is the line drawn? If that's too off-topic, nevermind me.

[Roknrol]

Re: Last ditch attempt to demonize Mary Jane

I avoided weed for decades - until I was 32 years old - for many of the same reasons. It seemed that everyone that I knew that smoked pot was a worthless layabout.

It was only after I started smoking that I realized just how many active users there are. CEO's of various companies that I've worked for and all the way down the chain.

The problem is that the people that are too stupid to be at least a little bit secretive are the ones that people see. I'd be willing to bet that you know a LOT more people that smoke regularly and you just aren't aware of the activity (most people aren't like me - I'm a frequent toker and am not shy about it...I'm legal and working somewhere that doesn't care, so that gives me more freedom than most professionals have).

Now, I will fully grant that if I had smoked, say, 20 years ago...I probably wouldn't be the same person that I am today. For me the drug helps and my wife is under the strictest obligations to let me know if she thinks it's getting out of hand. Her, I trust. The US Government? State Government? The general public? Not on a bet.

[ChainLightning]

Re: Last ditch attempt to demonize Mary Jane

For some reason, I doubt that smoking pot *caused* suicidal ideation, bipolar disorder or any of that kind of thing. IMO, it could make those issues come to the surface, a bit more clearly, than just remaining an underlying problem with no real indication that a person has it.

But, from the potheads I know, bipolar is one of the things that pot mellows out. Suicide usually involves way too much negativity for a stoner to possess. Like, imagine planning the end all, be all, during a giggle fit. It would just be impossible to go from planning stages to actions.



From my own experience, however, smoking the shit makes me paranoid, irritable and highly sociopathic. I detest the 'high' completely, because of what it does to me. If I could get the benefits without having the contraindications, I'd be on it. In a heartbeat. It actually works to reduce pain and that alone is reason enough to pursue the possibilities.




It's not the perfect cure that some claim. It's not the demon drug that others claim. I see people comparing it to alcohol or maybe cigarettes and I feel that's wrong. If you want to compare it to something, compare it to valium or methadone... something like that. A drug is like a drug. Alcohol isn't a drug, it's a poison that, in low enough doses, makes people happy to consume it.

[anunitu]

Re: Last ditch attempt to demonize Mary Jane

Have to agree Chain,though I haven't smoked weed in a LONG time. I have also seen people that should never smoke it, cause they just can't handle it,same goes for booze,some people should avoid it at all costs. I would think if a person had a bad reaction to any drug,they would avoid them,but not always so.

I might try smoking for pain if as you say it does not have a negative effect for me. NJ does have a MJ medical program,but it is very restrictive. There is a proposal in NJ right now to make it legal for private consumption,so if and when that happens I will see if it works for my Arthritis(Psoriasis arthritis) cause the pain can be kinda bad at times. But as I said if it has negative effects then I would avoid it.