To vaccinate, or not to vaccinate: that is the question

[Roknrol]

Re: To vaccinate, or not to vaccinate: that is the question

Evolution marches on.

[Medusa]

Re: To vaccinate, or not to vaccinate: that is the question

A lot of vaccinations they try to push on people are untested. I KNOW people that have had problems once they take vaccinations When it becomes mandatory and they try to outright force you to take it, that's when they cross the line. Nobody should force you to take anything, even if it would supposedly protect you. Besides, most if not all diseases can be cured through natural means.

Just how many vaccinations do you think there are exactly?
And how many do you say are untested?
Most 'people' that are getting vaccinated are usually kindergarten kids.
So who are these adults you know getting vaccinated?
No one can force you as an adult to get a shot? Unless you are going to another country. Then that country has a right to ask you to get a shot to come into their country. If you don't agree,you don't get it. But no one is forcing you.

I detect lots of nonsense

[anunitu]

Re: To vaccinate, or not to vaccinate: that is the question

When I went "Over seas" I got vaccinated for MANY things, including Plague among other things.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: To vaccinate, or not to vaccinate: that is the question

When I went "Over seas" I got vaccinated for MANY things, including Plague among other things.

That's good. Plague (The Black Death) is making a comeback. A couple of cases turned up in California recently. Fortunately, penicillin seems to be effective against the puss-dripping armpit death.

[anunitu]

Re: To vaccinate, or not to vaccinate: that is the question

I don't remember the year,but there was an outbreak of plague in Chinatown in SF in the 1800's.

googled it,and it was from 1900-1909.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aso/databank/entries/dm00bu.html

[Roknrol]

Re: To vaccinate, or not to vaccinate: that is the question

That's good. Plague (The Black Death) is making a comeback. A couple of cases turned up in California recently. Fortunately, penicillin seems to be effective against the puss-dripping armpit death.

For now, but this is exactly where the "false sense of security comes from". As we've seen, pleny of parents are *not* vaccinating their kids, because really how often do you hear about kids dying from chicken pox? Well, it's happening more often now due to FUD and a lack of an education. The longer that the Plague exists, the more likely it is that a strain will develop that is resistent (or downright immune) to penicillin.

Meh...my kid, my wife and I are vaccinated...I suppose if that's the nature of the next major pandemic (weeding out the non-vaccinated) that just raises the average IQ of our planet a little.

- - - Updated - - -

Plague in the US for the last 40 years or so: http://www.cdc.gov/plague/maps/

[Corvus]

Re: To vaccinate, or not to vaccinate: that is the question

People should be forcibly vaccinated. Or at least they should but they won't because it would be a violation of their "freedoms" that is, their freedom to spread and harm others with their irresponsibility. If you do not vaccinate your children they are capable of becoming carriers to infect others whom they come in contact with say at school, at church, public transit or other venues with lots of people clumped together. Especially vulnerable are the very young who can't yet be vaccinated and the very old, or others with weakened immune systems like people infected with HIV. It is not a matter of your personal preference with vaccination but of public safety. To not vaccinate your child opens them up to getting dangerous and preventable diseases and should they contract them do to your negligence is tantamount to releasing poison into the community. Schools get concerned when children don't have heavy coats in winter because parents are supposed to provide them to protect their kids from the cold. A vaccine is not different as it protects the child from sickness and is even more crucial as it also stops them from passing viruses onto others.

[Alienist]

Re: To vaccinate, or not to vaccinate: that is the question

People should be forcibly vaccinated. Or at least they should but they won't because it would be a violation of their "freedoms" that is, their freedom to spread and harm others with their irresponsibility. If you do not vaccinate your children they are capable of becoming carriers to infect others whom they come in contact with say at school, at church, public transit or other venues with lots of people clumped together. Especially vulnerable are the very young who can't yet be vaccinated and the very old, or others with weakened immune systems like people infected with HIV. It is not a matter of your personal preference with vaccination but of public safety. To not vaccinate your child opens them up to getting dangerous and preventable diseases and should they contract them do to your negligence is tantamount to releasing poison into the community. Schools get concerned when children don't have heavy coats in winter because parents are supposed to provide them to protect their kids from the cold. A vaccine is not different as it protects the child from sickness and is even more crucial as it also stops them from passing viruses onto others.

It IS a violation of their freedoms. If it's a product that someone is trying to sell you or get you to take, you should not be forced to take it at all. Almost all the time, "force" doesn't work. IF this was a good vaccine, that was actually tested, they wouldn't need to force it on you. You yourself would take it instead of having some government try to inject you against your will.

[Medusa]

Re: To vaccinate, or not to vaccinate: that is the question

The majority of the population get vaccinated without force. Hence your argument is invalid, que no?

[Alienist]

Re: To vaccinate, or not to vaccinate: that is the question

The majority of the population get vaccinated without force. Hence your argument is invalid, que no?

I never said most people get forced. I said it's not right to be forced into it. I thought I made that clear, but alas, I suppose I didn't. Also, you'd be surprised how many people have forced it, or at least attempted to force it on populations. And not just in America either.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: To vaccinate, or not to vaccinate: that is the question

The majority of the population get vaccinated without force. Hence your argument is invalid, que no?

It kind of depends on what you mean by "force."

There's no law saying you must get vaccinated, nobody points a gun at parents, or even fines them, so no physical force.

But the kid can't go to public schools, play on sports teams, and things like that, so there is coersive force used.

Personally, I'm OK with that. If a person chooses not to vaccinate, it makes sense to keep him/her away from places where diseases are spread - for their own good, as well as for the good of the public.

[Medusa]

Re: To vaccinate, or not to vaccinate: that is the question

It kind of depends on what you mean by "force."

There's no law saying you must get vaccinated, nobody points a gun at parents, or even fines them, so no physical force.

But the kid can't go to public schools, play on sports teams, and things like that, so there is coersive force used.

Personally, I'm OK with that. If a person chooses not to vaccinate, it makes sense to keep him/her away from places where diseases are spread - for their own good, as well as for the good of the public.

I agree. If you decide to bring something dangerous into my house...say Anthrax or some big fat pan full of spiders with spider babies...I'm gonna not let you come in.

We have seen in the past what happens when you don't vaccinate. When there is no vaccination. I mean you think the black plague was just a sneeze? This is what happens when an epidemic comes through and there is no stop in sight.

It's easy to be so anti vaccine when you can't remember ever wiping your ass with your hand or leaf. Thankfully we have books and stuff to remind the dumb of what happens when there is no vaccine. Now if we can just teach them to read.

[Corvus]

Re: To vaccinate, or not to vaccinate: that is the question

It IS a violation of their freedoms. If it's a product that someone is trying to sell you or get you to take, you should not be forced to take it at all. Almost all the time, "force" doesn't work. IF this was a good vaccine, that was actually tested, they wouldn't need to force it on you. You yourself would take it instead of having some government try to inject you against your will.

Many placed offer free vaccinations, especially for children and the elderly. Your argument about if this was a good vaccine they wouldn't need to force it is outright wrong. Vaccines have been tested and proven to be beneficial. It's parents who refuse to acknowledge millions of cases where vaccination has saved lives. Having a child does not make you a good parent and while our government in most cases leaves the raising of children to the parents there are cases where the parent's irresponsibility and negligence causes harm to the child and this is child abuse. A parent's job is to protect and raise their children and give them the greatest chances for achievement and a good life. Not vaccinating your child is not protecting them. Not vaccinating may very well kill your child or leave them in a state where life is much more difficult. Some parents are ignorant or defend convictions which are proven wrong by decades of research. As has been said several times vaccinations are some of the most tested medicines we have ever made. Either way the majority of parents do get their kids vaccinated so the argument is pointless except for those fringe individuals.

We have many laws in our country and every time a law is made "freedom" is violated. You are not free to steal or murder. You cannot fire guns into crowds or otherwise cause harm to people even though you have the free will needed to do so. Laws by their very nature restrict freedom but do so in the good faith that the outcome is more desirable. We have laws to stop murder because it's generally safer and people don't like to die (usually). There's probably people who consider that a violation of their freedom too. The point being that your freedoms can and will be violated, consistently, in our country if it is deemed to be better for the population at large. Corbin brought up a good point about non-vaccinated children not being allowed into school or sports teams. This is a good thing since it would put other children in danger. However, those non-vaccinated kids are still able to go to the mall, libraries, use the subway and transmit diseases.

I'm not saying we would ever implement such a policy. We never could in the current state of our population and government because parents have the choice to raise kids how they want. It would however save many people from getting sick now wouldn't it?

[anunitu]

Re: To vaccinate, or not to vaccinate: that is the question

In the past,if you caught something,then you got put into Quarantine and Isolation. That was the normal reaction to an outbreak. Much simpler to vaccinate before an outbreak occurs. BTW,the Quarantine was mandatory backed up by police and medical doctors.


"Typhoid Mary, was the first person in the United States identified as an asymptomatic carrier of the pathogen associated with typhoid fever. She was presumed to have infected some 49 people, three of whom died, over the course of her career as a cook.[1] She was twice forcibly isolated by public health authorities and died after a total of nearly three decades in isolation"

[Medusa]

Re: To vaccinate, or not to vaccinate: that is the question

Off topic/sorta on topic. I just read Blood Artists about what happens when an epidemic of some updated Ebola virus takes over and kills people AND the friggin fauna, man! And I'm currently reading The great influenza.

Epidemics suck.