A typical bully story? *let's look deeper*

[Roknrol]

Re: A typical bully story? *let's look deeper*

I think everyone agrees bullying is bad. What I want to know is what can we do from the other side to prevent it,

Nothing. Avoiding yor bully, standing up to your bully...there aren't really many other options. As Chain mentioned above (and as I said in my own statement), being seen as "insane" or whatever can certainly help, but I equate that with "standing up to your bully", simply because it's basically doing the same thing back to them: Instilling fear through behavior. Act insane or fight back....or be absent. I haven't seen another option crop up.

and to deal with it.

Yes, this is how it's "solved". Deal with it. One way or another, deal with it. If you survive, maybe you'll be a better person. Or maybe you'll find out that you're pretty good at the bully thing yourself and become a bully. But "dealing with it" is really the only "solution". It's not much of one, but tried and true.

I get the bully part: Teach your kid, your spouse, you...to not be an asshole. But what can the potential 'victim' do to keep this from happening or to deal with it.

Nothing.

This is the thing: If you tell someone that can/will protect you (whether it's a friend, a sibling, your parents, your teachers, or the cops) you are automatically singled out as a particluar type of person. Unfortunately, that "type" of person is someone who is "just asking to be bullied" by being a snitch or whatever. Remember: snitches get stitches.

On top of that, if that person is able to protect you for a given event...what happens next time? What happens when the bullies inevitably get you away from your protection? When you head to the bathroom during class and they're waiting in the hall? The answer is this: You get your ass kicked. And if you know what's good for you you 'fell down the stairs'.

The only solution that I've been able to come up with is to teach our kids to be more, not less, ruthless. When a bully has to contend with someone that sees it as a life or death battle, I suspect the bullying will stop. But I also suspect that will turn our kids into something else entirely, so not exactly a good trade-off.

What about this question: What happens to our society when we have beaten or bred the violence out, and we have a need for it? I mean, we can see today the differences between what todays youth had to suffer through and what our grandparents (or great grandparents) had to deal with as far as violence and survival. Hell, that helped get them through the Great Depression, after all...but what happens in 20 years when aliens invade (or China invades) and nobody really grasps that "fighting fair" is not only a very human idea, but it's one that isn't echoed anywhere in nature. When we're all nice and we want to fight fair, the other guy is perfectly willing to fight dirty and to win by whatever means necessary. Survival is not an ethical dilemma.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: A typical bully story? *let's look deeper*

I'll tell you what's really wrong with bullying - it's how we treat victims who fight back. We have a nasty tendency to 'make an example' of them. Months, years even of being tormented and nothing gets done. But fight back once and the teachers, authorities whatever, move in, and the victim who fought back is suddenly in the wrong.

Well I'll tell you what I told my children. Sod it. Fight back. Die fighting if you have to. You see me today and I'm old and knackered, but you push me over and I'll bite your bloody ankles. Cos that's just the way I am.

Bullies always pick their victims.

[Luce]

Re: A typical bully story? *let's look deeper*

Speaking as a peace officer, I take bullying and domestic abuse extremely seriously. If someone beats someone up, away they go. If I can't tell who is the aggressor or if everyone involved is definitely an aggressor, I have the uniforms chuck 'em all in the tank and let the DA sort it out.

[ThePaganMafia]

Re: A typical bully story? *let's look deeper*

I have a cleft lip so growing up I dealt with a lot of adverse social affects. My nickname at school was "broke lip". It especially got worse in middle school. I spent a lot of eighth grade suspended due to fighting bullies. The school of course did nothing to solve the bullying issue. I withdrew socially and spent most of my time reading. I had almost no regular social interaction until I joined the military.

Even as an adult it can sometimes be an issue but I rarely let people affect me now and ignore them. I think Ive made it out pretty good. However I think the psychological effects of growing up being bullied last well into adulthood. Bullying is damaging. It took me a few years but I made it from a quiet, generally hateful person to a fairly outgoing and friendly individual.

[midgnostic]

Re: A typical bully story? *let's look deeper*

I think situations where a child with slower social development is abused often reveal something of the perpetrators' own experience of being 'brought up'. The perpetrators' identify the victim's lack of social skills and prescribe treatment based on their own experience, which may be reinforced by envy at how the victim appears to revel in a phase of childhood they perhaps were wrested from. Their treatment is vindictive but also just as far minds yet to be imbued with executive functionality can be.

The opposite approach to meeting the needs of unusual children can be equally damaging. By ascribing difference to deviance and presuming this to be congenital rather than conditional, unusual children are not given the opportunity to attain a 'working knowledge' of social customs. This knowledge may help them protect their own integrity as it is likely to make society more amenable to their individuality. However there are vested interests in empahsising the restrictions of people deemed abnormal, evident by how responsibility is deferred from parents - grateful to be vindicated of blame - to medical professionals and the pharmaceutical industry - grateful for the business.

[Medusa]

Re: A typical bully story? *let's look deeper*

Update! The girls get sentenced!

[ChainLightning]

Re: A typical bully story? *let's look deeper*

Update! The girls get sentenced!

I really like a couple of those key points that are noted, right at the start of the article. Judge saying what they did was horrific. The minor gets shackled 'til she turns 21 and the 17 year old is facing a max of 80 years, being charged as an adult. And the boy wanted the charges dropped.


I'm guess, though, that the 17 year old won't get a sentence anywhere near that stiff. I'm betting more like 5-10 years. I really wish they both would have been charged as adults, since that "horrific" behavior would fall under "mature audiences" or NC-17 if it were a movie. The 15 year old had better realize just how lucky she is, for getting such a light sentence - the max that a juvie, of that age, can get, I think.

Or maybe she's just dumb enough to try and get the courts to take a fresh look at it, when she's 18.

I don't know if that's even possible but I'd love to see her get a far more similar sentence to what her so-called 'adult friend', her accomplice, is facing.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: A typical bully story? *let's look deeper*

Eighty years? Wouldn't it be better by far to force both girls to work with people with learning difficulties - under full and strict supervision - until they realised what they had done?

Because I do believe at heart that would be the greatest punishment of all. To be forced to realise and truly understand, to be forced to make amends constantly.

[MaskedOne]

Re: A typical bully story? *let's look deeper*

A full 80 years is unlikely. Past that, there were at least 2 things (the knife* and the not helping him out of the water) where they showed a blatant disregard for the guy's life. Sticking anyone in a trunk can also end terribly but it's much less likely for a teen than a small child so I don't count that atm.

* If he moved wrong or something jarred the knife holder's arm while a blade is to the boy's throat, that debacle could've gone very wrong. I'm sort of against including the child pornography charge but I can see why a furious and disgusted DA might have taken one look at this CF and said, "I'm throwing everything I possibly can and this fits the bill."

[Roknrol]

Re: A typical bully story? *let's look deeper*

Eighty years? Wouldn't it be better by far to force both girls to work with people with learning difficulties - under full and strict supervision - until they realised what they had done?

Because I do believe at heart that would be the greatest punishment of all. To be forced to realise and truly understand, to be forced to make amends constantly.

I suspect that forcing anyone to understand anything would be the issue there...if we were capable of making people understand, there'd probably be a lot less pain in the world.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: A typical bully story? *let's look deeper*

I suspect that forcing anyone to understand anything would be the issue there...if we were capable of making people understand, there'd probably be a lot less pain in the world.

Yes, Rok, I agree. And I still believe that it can be done, or at least, that it should be tried. I don't think locking people up or executing them is the only answer to serious crime (and yes, I know that nobody is suggesting a death sentence is involved in this particular case.)

I know I've probably posted this link before, but for those who aren't aware how other countries try and deal with crime, then here it is:

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/feb/25/norwegian-prison-inmates-treated-like-people

[Gleb]

Re: A typical bully story? *let's look deeper*

Yes, Rok, I agree. And I still believe that it can be done, or at least, that it should be tried. I don't think locking people up or executing them is the only answer to serious crime (and yes, I know that nobody is suggesting a death sentence is involved in this particular case.)

I know I've probably posted this link before, but for those who aren't aware how other countries try and deal with crime, then here it is:
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...ed-like-people

Thanks for the link, Tylluan! The article really interesting. But how does such prison help when we talk about someone who has a very bad character and habits? The person's mind may be very difficult to change in this case. Will 21 years be enough?

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: A typical bully story? *let's look deeper*

It's a tricky one, isn't it? But perhaps we should remember that Anders Breivik is going to go through the Norwegian system, and they haven't made an exception for him, despite his dreadful crimes.

[MoonRaven]

Re: A typical bully story? *let's look deeper*

On further note on Breivik and the Norwegian legal system.

21 years is the longest a prison sentence you can get in Norway, their equivalent of life sentence. But they used a special clause when they convicted Breivik that means that once the 21 years are up, a special board have to address his case to see if it is safe for him to be let out back into society. I would say that unless there happens an honest-to-god miracle in this time they are going to say no. The they have to revise the case I think it is each 3 or 5 years to see if it then is safe to let him out. Still think the answer will be no.

So in all I think Breivik is going to stay in prison until he's a very old man.

[okoserce]

Re: A typical bully story? *let's look deeper*

... Everyone will step on a doormat. Because that's what it is. A doormat. No one steps on a bomb with a sign that says I'm a bomb.

This will come off as a very not nice opinion. But it's mine. And I'm strong enough to say it. And yes, I've been bullied when I was weak. And when I look back there is nothing I could have changed...except my own actions and reactions. I don't live the other person's life. I only live mine. It's not a matter of blaming for me. That focuses on another person. Something we cannot ever control. It's a matter of self responsibility. That's the only thing I can control.

What say you?

While true many will step on a 'doormat'..but in this case it also doesn't mean they should. Now I do agree that what we can truly control is ourselves and our own actions there is a certain amount of ethics involved and having a functional civil society (which is the intent of having laws and guiding principles). Also, the fact that the boy was autistic very much changes the argument..and while autism may affect the boys perception your examples of the frat boy doing stupid stuff for attention is also wrong..now who's at fault in those cases I think is a bit more to the point, and to me, it is a bit of err on both sides both the instigator and the individual carrying out the actions.

I was bullied a lot growing up but it started tapering off once I hit about Sophomore year of Highschool. In hindsight I should have even given the bullies the time of day but I did let it affect me..while yes what they were doing was abusive in a mental and physical way and something that felt like I couldn't get away from..I do understand the part I had to play in it as well..by giving into it you give them strength sort of thing..atleast with guys I've heard it can be a bit different..generally signs of excessive force in retaliation would often make it let up for a while..but that had mixed results as it was often frowned upon and the bullies tended to have more friends to collaborate some sort of fallacy.

I think everyone agrees bullying is bad. What I want to know is what can we do from the other side to prevent it, and to deal with it. I get the bully part: Teach your kid, your spouse, you...to not be an asshole. But what can the potential 'victim' do to keep this from happening or to deal with it.

I've often wondered about this one myself..I guess the point is to decide as a society what we really want..half the problem is that we are doing the anti-bully thing rather half-arsedly..we are against it sort of and are also for many traits that often go right along with it (sadly some of that comes pre-wired).. but when trying to be a civil society we need to decide whether or not to have pistols and dawn a valid means of solving an issue or to have a 'proper' system in place to stop this from ever happening..