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A Witch's 10 Commandments

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    #16
    Re: A Witch's 10 Commandments

    Comparing (and contrasting) pagan ideas to other ideas (such as "Christian&quot is inevitable - compare and contrast are two of the main rhetorical modes, along with definition, analysis (which includes cause/effect relations), classification and narrative. The rhetorical modes, in addition to being the ways in which ideas are expressed, are also the main ways in which information is processed and assimilated by the brain.

    What I found particularly interesting about Thalassa's post, however, was the way in which different ethical systems tend to include items in the same categories. The way they play out in any particular system will vary with the system and the culture which gives rise to them, but the categories themselves tend to be similar. As different as human beings are, there seems to be an underlying pattern to the way we perceive right and wrong - or, maybe, the areas in which we percieve right and wrong actions to be possible.
    Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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      #17
      Re: A Witch's 10 Commandments

      I appreciate all of the posts. I am glad Thalassa made the Christian connection, now it makes even more sense to me why the author wrote them the way she did. As an ex Christian it was intriguing to have a comparison of general Pagan guidelines compared to Christian Commandments. Just to clarify Marian Singer begins her book with a "disclaimer" of sorts by stating that she does not believe that there are 10 Witch Commandments, and this book is meant to make it easier for someone in the Christian mindset to better understand the Pagan way of life. She also states that these guidelines are not set in stone and being Pagan is meant to make your religion personal and your own. For example some do not believe in the threefold law.

      I like the way this thread is going. All the ethical conversation keeps my brain flowing! KEEP POSTING =)
      sigpic

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        #18
        Re: A Witch's 10 Commandments

        [quote author=LiadanWillows link=topic=728.msg11339#msg11339 date=1289356486]
        Just to clarify Marian Singer begins her book with a "disclaimer" of sorts by stating that she does not believe that there are 10 Witch Commandments, and this book is meant to make it easier for someone in the Christian mindset to better understand the Pagan way of life. She also states that these guidelines are not set in stone and being Pagan is meant to make your religion personal and your own.
        [/quote]

        That makes a lot more sense to me, than a simple religious claim of such adamant 'fundamental laws'. I mean, I'd argue that these Witch's 10 Commandments were more in tune with a Wiccan 'fundie' perspective, or something, rather than a set of Pagan guidelines. But in the context of someone very familiar with the Christian set, trying to get a feel for something somewhat familiar yet fundamentally different. It would help to have a basis for comparison, familiarity and comfort.

        I guess, knowing that? I'm a bit less critical of the name.




        "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

        "Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius

        "The very ink with which history is written is merely fluid prejudice." - Mark Twain

        "The only gossip I'm interested in is things from the Weekly World News - 'Woman's bra bursts, 11 injured'. That kind of thing." - Johnny Depp


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          #19
          Re: A Witch's 10 Commandments

          The only thing I really don't like about this author is she uses the terms Pagan, Neo-Pagan, and Wiccan interchangeably. And to be honest I guess I am not sure of the concrete differences either. Yup I am a n00b lol.
          sigpic

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            #20
            Re: A Witch's 10 Commandments

            [quote author=LiadanWillows link=topic=728.msg11385#msg11385 date=1289363716]
            The only thing I really don't like about this author is she uses the terms Pagan, Neo-Pagan, and Wiccan interchangeably. And to be honest I guess I am not sure of the concrete differences either. Yup I am a n00b lol.
            [/quote]

            Wiccans are a specific sect of Pagan/Neo-Pagan. They generally believe in the Lord and Lady, the Wiccan Rede and 3-Fold. Past that things get really flexible depending on what branch you are looking at.

            Pagan in it's broadest sense could theoretically cover just about anyone who does not fit into one of the three Abrahamic Faiths. I don't particularly like stretching it that broadly so I generally refer to well established sects by the names they claim for themselves. This means, I do not normally class Hindus, Taoists, Buddhists, Atheists, Mazdayans (Zoroastrians), native shamans and probably several sects that I can't remember as Pagan unless I absolutely have to. The rest of the world (including Recons of most flavors, Wiccans, eclectic pagans, certain flavors of Pantheist, etc.) is fair game until I find a better name or they give me one.

            I don't for the most part use the term Neo-Pagan these days unless drawing a historical distinction or just being an *** to someone. If I do use then it pretty much takes the place of Pagan as described above and use Pagan to refer to non-Abrahamic traditions that did not survive Christianity for one reason or another.

            There is depending on who you talk to a great deal of leeway on how these terms are applied. I'm a little more stringent on how I think of people but as a matter of tact, I'm not generally going to argue with you over what you call your beliefs. There are possible exceptions but I haven't run into any here yet.
            life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

            Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

            "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

            John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

            "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

            Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


            Comment

              #21
              Re: A Witch's 10 Commandments

              [quote author=B. de Corbin link=topic=728.msg11320#msg11320 date=1289352343]
              Comparing (and contrasting) pagan ideas to other ideas (such as "Christian&quot is inevitable - compare and contrast are two of the main rhetorical modes, along with definition, analysis (which includes cause/effect relations), classification and narrative. The rhetorical modes, in addition to being the ways in which ideas are expressed, are also the main ways in which information is processed and assimilated by the brain.

              What I found particularly interesting about Thalassa's post, however, was the way in which different ethical systems tend to include items in the same categories. The way they play out in any particular system will vary with the system and the culture which gives rise to them, but the categories themselves tend to be similar. As different as human beings are, there seems to be an underlying pattern to the way we perceive right and wrong - or, maybe, the areas in which we percieve right and wrong actions to be possible.
              [/quote]

              ^This.

              I like the way it compares and contrasts. So long as someone is clear that they do not speak for everyone, I think that one of the most helpful things about it is the fact that it does play off of Christian themes, *but* it does so with out being obvious. There's way too much "I'm cool because I'm something you're not" out there already. It takes a lot of maturity to be able to compare without trying to make the other side look bad.
              Great Grandmother's Kitchen

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                #22
                Re: A Witch's 10 Commandments

                [quote author=Deseret link=topic=728.msg11627#msg11627 date=1289418441]
                ^This.

                I like the way it compares and contrasts. So long as someone is clear that they do not speak for everyone, I think that one of the most helpful things about it is the fact that it does play off of Christian themes, *but* it does so with out being obvious. There's way too much "I'm cool because I'm something you're not" out there already. It takes a lot of maturity to be able to compare without trying to make the other side look bad.
                [/quote]

                Agree. This author does this very well, never bashing on any religion. She just talks about Paganism in general. If anyone is interested in this book it is a wonderful read http://www.amazon.com/Witchs-10-Comm...927&sr=1-1

                $4.56 on Amazon.. cant get better than that!
                sigpic

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                  #23
                  Re: A Witch's 10 Commandments

                  MaskedOne, I often hear Neopagan and Pagan used interchangeably, and I frequently substitute Wicca (with caveat that it's not identical to the broader terms) when I'm trying to explain what I do to someone who's barely heard of Paganism.

                  As a scholar I find Neopagan to be more accurate for most of what falls under the Pagan umbrella. I except indigenous family trads, shamanisms, and Afro-Diasoporic trads from the Neo- and that's about it. (I, too, balk at calling religions Neo/Pagan whose members generally identify as something else.)

                  ...
                  /offtopic

                  Comment

                    #24
                    Re: A Witch's 10 Commandments

                    [quote author=Gwen link=topic=728.msg11815#msg11815 date=1289449842]

                    As a scholar I find Neopagan to be more accurate for most of what falls under the Pagan umbrella. I except indigenous family trads, shamanisms, and Afro-Diasoporic trads from the Neo- and that's about it. (I, too, balk at calling religions Neo/Pagan whose members generally identify as something else.)

                    [/quote]

                    Agreed, I do consider Neo-Pagan more accurate for most of what I put under the Pagan umbrella. I prefer Pagan largely as a historical reference that expands to a handful of traditions and isolated cultures. That said, most of the people who I class as Neo-Pagan, class themselves as Pagan so at the moment I'll use the commonly accepted term and leave Neo-Pagan unused in most instances.

                    life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                    Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                    "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                    John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                    "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                    Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


                    Comment

                      #25
                      Re: A Witch's 10 Commandments

                      [quote author=LiadanWillows link=topic=728.msg11073#msg11073 date=1289267665]
                      7. All Acts of Love and Pleasure are Sacred
                      [/quote]So, what stops Heroin from being sacred?

                      And seriously, good job Thal!
                      "A true initiation never ends"-Robert Anton Wilson
                      http://www.hermetic.com/crowley
                      "Reality has become a commodity"-Stephen Colbert 1/29/07
                      http://www.chaosmatrix.org/
                      "Sometimes, when you can't breathe, there are people there to breathe for you" - Aesop Rock
                      http://upholdingmaat.wordpress.com

                      Comment

                        #26
                        Re: A Witch's 10 Commandments

                        its not perfect...but, here's the rough draft


                        Thalassa's Witchy Answer to the 10 Commandments That Are Really More Like Guidelines to be Followed Only by Herself and Anyone That Might Find Them Appealing for Themselves:

                        (and we wondered why the original author just called her list "A Witch's 10 Commandments&quot
                        (wonders that no one else noticed the presence of the word A and not THE) :P

                        1. Divinity Abides in All things
                        2. Take responsibility for the ways in which you choose to worship.
                        3. All knowledge is worth having, but use the symbols of the Divine with prudence for they have Power.
                        4. Strive for each action of one's body be a prayer of one's soul
                        5. Honor the purpose of each thing, no matter how small or hidden that purpose might appear.
                        6. Life is a gift. When you can give it, do so with humility; when you must take it, do so with mercy.
                        7. Love as thou wilt (rafe & V should like this one, lol)
                        8. Speak carefully. The words you sow today will eventually bear fruit.
                        9. Respect the vows of others and of yourself.
                        10. Count your own blessings before counting the blessings of others.

                        Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                          #27
                          Re: A Witch's 10 Commandments

                          [quote author=AzazelEblis link=topic=728.msg11857#msg11857 date=1289466181]
                          So, what stops Heroin from being sacred?
                          [/quote]

                          Who says heroin isn't sacred?

                          It's a powerful medicine when used respectfully and in the correct dosages, and it's not heroin's fault that people abuse it.
                          The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

                          Comment

                            #28
                            Re: A Witch's 10 Commandments

                            [quote author=perzephone link=topic=728.msg11992#msg11992 date=1289491685]
                            Who says heroin isn't sacred?

                            It's a powerful medicine when used respectfully and in the correct dosages, and it's not heroin's fault that people abuse it.
                            [/quote]

                            Ah, yes...this idea could totally be an entire thread on its own.

                            I think one of my fave books is From Chocolate to Morphine, in terms of the discussion of use, abuse and addiction...and why they are not the same thing.
                            Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
                            sigpic

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                              #29
                              Re: A Witch's 10 Commandments

                              [quote author=AzazelEblis link=topic=728.msg11857#msg11857 date=1289466181]
                              So, what stops Heroin from being sacred?

                              And seriously, good job Thal!
                              [/quote]

                              The author actually never talks about anything but sex, love, and relationships in this chapter. I don't think she worded #7 properly. But my personal opinion is that if you are going to have pleasure you should do so in a sacred and spiritual way. Or in another perspective, when you experience pleasure see it as a sacred/spiritual thing, as a blessing. Most people who abuse heroin will tell you that though they experience and instant satisfaction their "pleasure" doesn't last for long and they see that satisfaction as a curse because all they want is more, a bigger high. I think Thal is right, this heroin/addiction thing would be a good new topic...
                              sigpic

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                                #30
                                Re: A Witch's 10 Commandments

                                Also, regarding the book that these come from (I did some googling and review reading)...you can see (parts of) it for yourself...

                                TBH, I sort of want to read it the rest and see her comparison. Obviously its meant to be a general introductory book to contemporary Paganism, but its not exactly the formula for your basic 101 book. And, I can totally see how someone from a Christian background would be able to connect.

                                Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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