Debate on the christian bible

[Alienist]

Re: Debate on the christian bible

Alienist, I think the books you are referring to are the Gnostic Gospels. They were a group who believed (generally. They're not really a group, they're more a loosely associate group of subgroups.), that Jesus came to save us from the demiurge - the creator god who made the material world to entrap our souls... it goes on, it's a whole big mythology...

Generally, their gospels had Jesus passing on secret knowledge to one off his other followers. Mary, Thomas (who is the hero instead of the buffoon, in their version), or even Judas (who, in their version is the one who is the great hero, not the evil betrayer).

Some of the early dudes who made up the Bible decided which parts told the right story, and tried to get rid of as many contradictory parts as they could. These books, and the people who followed them, eventually became extinct.

But not quite.

Research "gnostic gospels" or "Nag Hammadi Library" for much more information.

P.S. IMHO - the book "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" is B.S. The scholarship would be sloppy for even a high school senior.

Holy Blood Holy Grail is obviously Gnostic inspired but I honestly don't see how it's B.S. as to me, it makes more sense than most books about Jesus.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Debate on the christian bible

The Bible as we know it today is a compilation of various texts that were put together to form a standard for the faith and make it easier for the clergy to know what they were supposed to be teaching their followers. The Catholic Church is pretty open about this fact. Then of course is the fact that various Christian groups disagree about the correct translations of said compiled texts and so squabble about which Bible is the 'true Bible'. Some of them include books of their own that are quite obviously and openly in addition to the traditional books of the Bible.

The Book of Mormon being an entertaining example of an add on sacred text.

[anunitu]

Re: Debate on the christian bible

I really don't understand how anyone "Believes",when a person says I found this golden book,BUT I can't show it to you. I will write down what it says,and all you have to do is "Trust" me that I really did see that golden book. This comes from a history channel show about the beginnings of the Mormons.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Debate on the christian bible

Holy Blood Holy Grail is obviously Gnostic inspired but I honestly don't see how it's B.S. as to me, it makes more sense than most books about Jesus.

It is B.S. because it pretends to use scholarship, but, when checked, the cited sources don't exist, or can't be located, or can't be verified. Those that can be located frequently are misquoted, misparaphrased, or flat out fabrication.

It is B.S. because it connects ideas into a string by using suggestion, innuendo, possibility, though never backing them up with identifiable causal connection.

In short, it is B.S. because it makes claims regarding historical events, but provides no actual evidence, while also claiming that the lack of evidence is proof of a conspiracy.

[Alienist]

Re: Debate on the christian bible

It is B.S. because it pretends to use scholarship, but, when checked, the cited sources don't exist, or can't be located, or can't be verified. Those that can be located frequently are misquoted, misparaphrased, or flat out fabrication.

It is B.S. because it connects ideas into a string by using suggestion, innuendo, possibility, though never backing them up with identifiable causal connection.

In short, it is B.S. because it makes claims regarding historical events, but provides no actual evidence, while also claiming that the lack of evidence is proof of a conspiracy.

There's a difference between proof and evidence. You say it's B.S. and you say they don't back up their claims but I don't see you backing up your arguments by saying that said book is b.s. In short, your argument is no more valid. I was hoping for more convincing arguments other than saying "It's false because I say so" A lot of people seem to say that around here.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Debate on the christian bible

There's a difference between proof and evidence. You say it's B.S. and you say they don't back up their claims but I don't see you backing up your arguments by saying that said book is b.s. In short, your argument is no more valid. I was hoping for more convincing arguments other than saying "It's false because I say so" A lot of people seem to say that around here.

I'm not writing a book, I'm answering you questions.

If you want to be as smart as you are trying to sound, I suggest YOU take some time check out the logic of their arguments, and check their sources.

But I don't care if you remain ignorant, either.

[Rhaethe]

Re: Debate on the christian bible

I personally do not have a horse in this race, but reading the thread, I did a quick Google of the book (took 5 seconds) and was able to find this, as in regards to criticisms of its scholarship (or lack thereof). Not that Wikipedia is the end all and be all of such things, but it does provide a springboard on exploration / reasoning why some may find the book lacking in scholarship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holy_Blood_and_the_Holy_Grail#Criticism

Again, I don't have an opinion about the book one way or the other, but pros and cons of it are pretty easy to find.

[Alienist]

Re: Debate on the christian bible

I'm not writing a book, I'm answering you questions.

If you want to be as smart as you are trying to sound, I suggest YOU take some time check out the logic of their arguments, and check their sources.

But I don't care if you remain ignorant, either.

You're not really answering my questions but rather stating your own opinions which you don't base on anything. So the same really applies to you if you want to back up your claims.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Debate on the christian bible

OK, Sonny. Have a nice day.

[ThePaganMafia]

Re: Debate on the christian bible

Any Bible debate thread is an exercise in redundancy.

[anunitu]

Re: Debate on the christian bible

I would agree TPM,since the Bible has little to do with my personal beliefs,discussion as to its validation pro or con is not really a subject I find interesting.

[Medusa]

Re: Debate on the christian bible

Any Bible debate thread is an exercise in redundancy.

Yes. And it will only be full of opinions. Because nothing can actually be proven on either side. It's such a sketchy book, who effing cares?

[ChainLightning]

Re: Debate on the christian bible

Because I'm a glutton for punishment...

You're not really answering my questions but rather stating your own opinions which you don't base on anything.

Did you not read Corbin's post? I'll save you the trouble of going back to look for it.

It is B.S. because it pretends to use scholarship, but, when checked, the cited sources don't exist, or can't be located, or can't be verified. Those that can be located frequently are misquoted, misparaphrased, or flat out fabrication.

It is B.S. because it connects ideas into a string by using suggestion, innuendo, possibility, though never backing them up with identifiable causal connection.

In short, it is B.S. because it makes claims regarding historical events, but provides no actual evidence, while also claiming that the lack of evidence is proof of a conspiracy.

There seems to be a complete lack of opinion, there, Alienist, in favor of real verifiable statements. Such as, sources that don't exist and whatnot, or the total lack of supporting evidence. If the book has no solid evidence to back up it's claims, it is not the reader that has to find evidence, elsewhere, to disprove it. (It is the exact same futility inherent in debating the Holy Bible. It can't be disproven. It can't be proven. The Bible is a religious text. Not a research vessel.)

Plus, if you're asking Corbin to cite his source, that this book is B.S., he already has. The source IS that book you seem to covet.


So, which part do you find confusing? The bit that has words containing more than two syllables? What? Your circular logic won't work on me.

[Maria de Luna]

Re: Debate on the christian bible

Dunno much about the book, but I did an amazon search re: one of the authors and wow.... Gold.... So many conspiracy theories so much crazy, so few places to put them!

if you want to see what I saw...

[Alienist]

Re: Debate on the christian bible

For some reason people seem to link "conspiracy" with "crazy" But then when people don't understand something or refuse to believe in something, they call it "crazy" because they don't know what else to call it. Yeah as if nobody in the history of humanity has ever conspired something or tried to hide something from public knowledge to suit their needs, right? If people for a second believe that their own government wouldn't even think of betraying them, then they really are insane as many governments and groups have betrayed their own kind. Knowledge is power. If I know something you don't know, I have more power than you.