Amazon defends 'Pedophile's Guide'

[Medusa]

Re: Amazon defends 'Pedophile's Guide'

Thor asked where the line is?
It's where you harm children, who are completely innocent in this matter alltogether.
See, now wasn't that easy?
I get this whole freedom of speech.
I get the whole Amazon is a business and can do what it wants.
I get all that I love AMERICA shit.

Children being raped.
Raise your hand if you are for that.


*looks around.



*looks around.



*looks around.

[thalassa]

Re: Amazon defends 'Pedophile's Guide'

I take it then that you think that no one should be able to carry Lolita either?

[DanieMarie]

Re: Amazon defends 'Pedophile's Guide'

[quote author=thalassa link=topic=766.msg12190#msg12190 date=1289514585]
I take it then that you think that no one should be able to carry Lolita either?
[/quote]

I think there's a big gap between fiction and a how-to manual.

[thalassa]

Re: Amazon defends 'Pedophile's Guide'

[quote author=DanieMarie link=topic=766.msg12191#msg12191 date=1289514697]
I think there's a big gap between fiction and a how-to manual.
[/quote]

Its either about kids getting raped or not.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Amazon defends 'Pedophile's Guide'

[quote author=thalassa link=topic=766.msg12193#msg12193 date=1289514761]
Its either about kids getting raped or not.
[/quote]

One is a fictional story about a man who ruins his life due to his inappropriate sexual desires, the other is telling people to do something that harms children, and telling them how to do it.

[thalassa]

Re: Amazon defends 'Pedophile's Guide'

[quote author=DanieMarie link=topic=766.msg12194#msg12194 date=1289514843]
One is a fictional story about a man who ruins his life due to his inappropriate sexual desires, the other is telling people to do something that harms children, and telling them how to do it.
[/quote]

I know. I've read it.

BUT...by *this* line of reasoning:

[quote author=Medusa link=topic=766.msg12189#msg12189 date=1289514384]
Thor asked where the line is?
It's where you harm children, who are completely innocent in this matter alltogether.
See, now wasn't that easy?
I get this whole freedom of speech.
I get the whole Amazon is a business and can do what it wants.
I get all that I love AMERICA shit.

Children being raped.
Raise your hand if you are for that.


*looks around.



*looks around.



*looks around.

[/quote]


If its about kids getting raped, then yes...by that idea, EVERY piece of literature including such a scenario should be censored.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Amazon defends 'Pedophile's Guide'

Ah...I was just responding to your comment because personally I feel it's more about directly inviting kids to get raped, not the presence of it in literature.

To use a direct example (because it's the only actual one I can think of), you can't publish direct hate literature here, but there are obviously TONS of fiction and also non-fictional accounts of Nazis doing terrible things to people and that's allowed.

[Medusa]

Re: Amazon defends 'Pedophile's Guide'

[quote author=thalassa link=topic=766.msg12190#msg12190 date=1289514585]
I take it then that you think that no one should be able to carry Lolita either?
[/quote]
Actually I own Lolita.
Humbert ended up busted in the end.
And.....it wasn't a step by step guide with illustrations about how to fuck a 7 year old boy. If you want to live in fantasy land. Great. I do. All the time. But to just make a real world step by step guide on how to rape a kid? No. I have no problem to easily say..pull that. No. My line is quite easy. I have no slope. A rape guide for kids is only about how to rape a kid. And..according to the author (who was interviewed on the news last night) to make it easier for pedophiles.

I don't have a problem trying to figure out what side of law and legal and principal and child to land on. I'll take a child every.single.time. It's really not that hard.

Hey I bet if some guy came up to you and wanted to harm your kid. Rules and regulations. His rights as a human being all would go out the window. This book does nothing but promote the rape of children. So I sit on that side. I don't really care about the whole business laws or freedom of anything. I just sit on the child's side. Since kids can't step up and voice their concerns...someone has to do it for them. And even though I have no children..I have no problem standing up for them and protecting them..however possible. Is it a gut reaction? Yes. Should it really be otherwise? Should I really have to think of legal terms here? No. Should I have to think of AMERICA and our freedoms? Nope. I just need to think of the kid. Would anyone actually say NO DON'T THINK OF THE CHILD? Really now?

The guy is a pedophile hick. I don't give a fuck of his rights. Here are his own words:

This is my attempt to make pedophile situations safer for those juveniles that find themselves involved in them, by establishing certian [sic] rules for these adults to follow," a product description read. "I hope to achieve this by appealing to the better nature of pedosexuals, with hope that their doing so will result in less hatred and perhaps liter sentences should they ever be caught."

And here is the interview with the author:
pedosauce

[thalassa]

Re: Amazon defends 'Pedophile's Guide'

My thing is this...

To say that this book shouldn't be allowed to be published (no matter how reprehensible the material) or distributed means that either a) a law banning "how to" manuals for illegal actions needs to be passed, b) that child porn and child exploitation laws need to be expanded or c) we should just abandon the idea of free speech in this country.

Personally, I have no problem what so ever with option b. I have some big reservations with option a. And someone can enact option C over my cold dead body and my husband's rifle...and they can touch my child with the same fucking expectations, because I will kill them, and I will happily accept the repercussions of the legality of such.

But, as it stands now...unless someone knows something that I don't, this book is not illegal. Which means that Amazon (or any other company) is within their rights to carry it--or not.

And, if you don't like that it *is* legal, then maybe you should contact your congressman or whatnot to see that child exploitation laws ARE expanded to include material that would instruct others on how to exploit children so that pervy assholes can be sent to jail.

ETA...this makes me wonder why this isn't included under child porn laws...

[Medusa]

Re: Amazon defends 'Pedophile's Guide'

I get what you are saying. I get your reason for defending the idea behind this book etc.

But, as it stands now...unless someone knows something that I don't, this book is not illegal.

I don't care if it's legal or not. Do I have some moral dilemma stating I won't agree with the reasons behind it? Nope. Does it bother me I might defend another book and not this one? Nope.
I personally never agreed with the whole I will defend your right shpeel. Because it's always pretty much bs. They never really do. They just say they do. But no one is gonna step up and be like YES PLEASE I AM GOING TO FIGHT TO THE DEATH TO KEEP THIS RAPE GUIDE ALIVE!. Nope.

[thalassa]

Re: Amazon defends 'Pedophile's Guide'

[quote author=Medusa link=topic=766.msg12205#msg12205 date=1289516155]
I personally never agreed with the whole I will defend your right shpeel. Because it's always pretty much bs. They never really do. They just say they do. But no one is gonna step up and be like YES PLEASE I AM GOING TO FIGHT TO THE DEATH TO KEEP THIS RAPE GUIDE ALIVE!. Nope.
[/quote]

No one *has* to fight to the death to ensure this guy has a platform to write whatever he wants to. People have already died so that others can write what they choose. Its already the law. The same law, that lets neo-Nazis hold signs and KKK members hold meetings and Fred Phelps protest funerals...and same one that lets you express yourself. So, if you don't like that the law currently lets pedo freaks write rape guides without impunity, then do something about it.

[Medusa]

Re: Amazon defends 'Pedophile's Guide'

[quote author=thalassa link=topic=766.msg12211#msg12211 date=1289516692]
No one *has* to fight to the death to ensure this guy has a platform to write whatever he wants to. People have already died so that others can write what they choose. Its already the law. The same law, that lets neo-Nazis hold signs and KKK members hold meetings and Fred Phelps protest funerals...and same one that lets you express yourself. So, if you don't like that the law currently lets pedo freaks write rape guides without impunity, then do something about it.
[/quote]
Well I do. With my pocket book. And...with starting this thread to voice my concerns and to fight all of you! Sheesh. :P

Plus apparently 'my kind' did do something about it. They protested enough that the book is pulled. So something was done. Tada!

[thalassa]

Re: Amazon defends 'Pedophile's Guide'

[quote author=Medusa link=topic=766.msg12205#msg12205 date=1289516155]
I get what you are saying. I get your reason for defending the idea behind this book etc.[/quote]

I'm actually not defending the idea behind this book. If you can defend the idea behind the book, then kudos to you...I'm not sure how one defends pedophilia. But...apparently there are aspects about it that are not illegal.

I'm defending the idea that *legally* there is no recourse against either this author or Amazon. As already pointed out, that recourse that *can* occur, as the system stands at this moment has caused Amazon bow to public pressure and to no longer carry the book.

And, I'm pointing out that if you (or anyone) does not like the idea that a book like this *can* be written/published/distributed then maybe they should work to expand the laws already in place to prevent children from being abused to include materials such as this.

[Dez]

Re: Amazon defends 'Pedophile's Guide'

[quote author=Medusa link=topic=766.msg12200#msg12200 date=1289515684]
The guy is a pedophile hick. I don't give a fuck of his rights. Here are his own words:
And here is the interview with the author:
pedosauce
[/quote]

He's let that much information about himself be adrift on the internet? Full name, occupation, picture, etc?

He'll be dead within a year.

[quote author=thalassa link=topic=766.msg12202#msg12202 date=1289515875]
And, if you don't like that it *is* legal, then maybe you should contact your congressman or whatnot to see that child exploitation laws ARE expanded to include material that would instruct others on how to exploit children so that pervy assholes can be sent to jail.

ETA...this makes me wonder why this isn't included under child porn laws...
[/quote]

This is the crux of the issue. I doubt anyone really considered the possibility that someone might be crazy/evil enough to write a pedo how-to. It should definitely be included under the law.

That said, here's the part of this that people don't like to deal with. There will always be child molesters. They have sexual contact with an average of 13 children before they are ever caught. Then, if they can be proven guilty, which is extremely difficult unless there was either photo or physical evidence, they are sent to jail. They are not eligible for something like the death penalty, and often get less then ten years, Being booting extremely quickly right now due to overcrowding of prisons.

That means that every community in the nation has registered sex offenders in it, baring a handful of cities in which the population of pedophiles is homeless and mobile because they can't find anywhere to live that is far enough away from locations such as parks and schools.

What do we do with these people? They aren't going to go away, and so far evidence dictates that they are not successfully rehabilitated. I don't defend this scum bag in any way, but it seems possible to me that his goal was to discourage violent crimes, and encourage acting out in other ways. Doesn't make it any less disgusting, though, but it does raise some serious questions about what to do with a percentage of the population that the rest would rather see dead, but aren't allowed to kill.

[Medusa]

Re: Amazon defends 'Pedophile's Guide'

I'm actually not defending the idea behind this book.

I didn't mean the idea idea. But the principal of the matter. The Legal one you were making. I get the reasoning behind it.

And, I'm pointing out that if you (or anyone) does not like the idea that a book like this *can* be written/published/distributed then maybe they should work to expand the laws already in place to prevent children from being abused to include materials such as this.

I'd like to make something clear. Which I am not sure I made mention of or thought out coherently (I was up late last night with this thread!)
I don't want to make this book illegal. Why? Because when it comes to THIS subject matter..I believe America can take care of how this goes. By America I mean the people and not the law. I trust that if something like THIS subject matter comes out onto the market on a very popular retailer..it will be taken down accordingly by Americans who would do something about it. It's not illegal to make this book. Nor is it illegal to bombard the retailer with your view and protest of product. People who do not have control over the law...do have control over their money..especially at a time when to piss off the few people who can afford to buy...would be a dumb move.

So I agree the book should not be illegal. And I agree if I want that book taken down I need to do it the old fashioned way. Which I would have done...but man, this was one day out! Not much of a chance dang it!