The High and Mighty PF Staff

[MaskedOne]

Re: The High and Mighty PF Staff

The fact this topic even exists proves our staff is a benevolent, non-tyrannical organization. I honestly really love this place. Our staff is full of loving, fairly balanced individuals who use rational judgement and do their best to make this not only a place of learning but a home for the members. The fairness is probably one of my favorite things about the way this place is run because too often a mod's personal views or laziness prevent them from objectively seeing things. For example there's plenty of pagan/occult boards where bashing Abrahamic faiths is A-Okay and I LOVE that it's not like that here. PF isn't just a forum to me, it's a home, and I know a lot of other people feel the same. I respect and admire how our staff keep it running so smoothly. You guys are great.

If you just accused me of being a caring, loving individual then I will have to ramp up the oppression to new heights and start seeking people to use as object lessons. Please tell me you meant the rest of the staff. I have commitments this month and intensifying the oppression might affect my sleep.

[Corvus]

Re: The High and Mighty PF Staff

If you just accused me of being a caring, loving individual then I will have to ramp up the oppression to new heights and start seeking people to use as object lessons. Please tell me you meant the rest of the staff. I have commitments this month and intensifying the oppression might affect my sleep.

I of course applied this to staff who still retain the capacity for compassion. I'm still considering the possibility that you are in fact a sentient computer, speaking through multiple heavily drugged proxies, who is gathering information to subjugate the human race and is weirdly fascinated by our culture. Perhaps you've mistaken a Jedi for an admired religious leader and consider Pizza a narcotic to enslave the people.

[MaskedOne]

Re: The High and Mighty PF Staff

I of course applied this to staff who still retain the capacity for compassion. I'm still considering the possibility that you are in fact a sentient computer, speaking through multiple heavily drugged proxies, who is gathering information to subjugate the human race and is weirdly fascinated by our culture.

Oh good. You had me concerned for a moment.

Hmm, I don'th think I've used an AI as a meatshell equivalent before. This idea might be fun. Thanks, Corvus!

[Gleb]

Re: The High and Mighty PF Staff

The fact this topic even exists proves our staff is a benevolent, non-tyrannical organization. I honestly really love this place. Our staff is full of loving, fairly balanced individuals who use rational judgement and do their best to make this not only a place of learning but a home for the members. The fairness is probably one of my favorite things about the way this place is run because too often a mod's personal views or laziness prevent them from objectively seeing things. For example there's plenty of pagan/occult boards where bashing Abrahamic faiths is A-Okay and I LOVE that it's not like that here. PF isn't just a forum to me, it's a home, and I know a lot of other people feel the same. I respect and admire how our staff keep it running so smoothly. You guys are great.

The same here.

[Malflick]

Re: The High and Mighty PF Staff

Seriously, the fact that I've been here as long as I have, with the post frequency I have, and have only ever had one serious disagreement with a staff member is pretty amazing. The balance between moderation and speech is good here.

Though as I said, I wish there was an air freshener for the dead horses :P!

[Medusa]

Re: The High and Mighty PF Staff

I'm fine with the staff. I've gotten in my fair share of snafus. And I've also learned how to get right around all laws and skeedaddle right up to the line of getting in trouble. They let me be. I try to behave. It works.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: The High and Mighty PF Staff

I remember - and was a member of this place - years and years ago. Don't think I've mentioned that in the past couple of years. I remember it even before Rok turned up - in fact, I think I remember him arriving - and it was a very different place then. Moderating was minimal and it was not a very happy place to be - at least, not for me. It wasn't that there were trolls, or if there were, I didn't recognise them as such, it was just that the place was more of a bear pit.

And after one particularly bruising bout - no moderators in sight - I left. And I left for many years. But, as you can see, I came back.

The point of all this reminiscing? Well, I know I don't have a particularly thick skin. And I know once that I did try to leave not so long ago because I felt I had been unfairly treated.

But - I know that if I had to spend day after day dealing with some of what we've seen on the forum in the past year I would probably lose the will to live. So hats off to the Mods for doing a job that would have me trying to find 'Dial-a-Malkie' in the phone book. (Translation - trying to find a hit man. Sorry )

The thing is, I like being here. I feel I am among friends. I don't frequent forums (okay, fora) much. There is just one other in the UK. I feel safe here, and comfortable. And that's a pretty priceless commodity in this world.

[Rick]

Re: The High and Mighty PF Staff

I only have two words for ya: carry on.

Rick out.

[Rae'ya]

Re: The High and Mighty PF Staff

I think it's fairly obvious from some recent jesting where I stand on this matter. But all jokes aside, my serious answer is that I have a great deal of respect and admiration for the way this forum is run.

Don't change a thing.

I've come from a forum where I (and a few other non-mod members) was basically the militia. There were far too many mods who were far too rule bound and had to discuss everything with each other before they could move on anything. The original admins were too concerned about hurting people's feelings to be effective in any way. It improved a great deal when there were some admin changes, but it's unfortunately reverted back now that most of the primary posters have left. My point there is that despite the efforts of it's members, good forums can, and do, go bad because of their mods and admin. This place isn't one of them.

I think that part of the reason that it works so well here is that you are a fairly small group, and that you have the approach that you do, and that you have the combination of people and personalities that you do. You balance each other out beautifully. You have this fantastic immersion in the forum that just works. And the red and green post system seems so much more effective than other systems I've seen. I don't mean to wax lyrical about how great you are... but there's just something here that works better than most other pagan forums I've been a part of.

As for the specific questions:

I wholeheartedly support the idea of questioning authority. Overthrowing the chains of tyranny. Transparency of governing. But, how far does that go? Does it just keep on until we reach a state of total anarchy?

The right to question authority is just that... the right to question authority. It doesn't mean that there is no authority and it doesn't mean that the questioner is automatically right. It also doesn't mean that the members have the right to do the questioning in a rude, obnoxious or childish manner. You apparently have a system for appealing a mod decision... and if this has previously changed the official decisions on a thread then I assume it works. As long as those appealing submit their appeal in a mature manner and are treated accordingly, I don't see any need for anything further. I suppose the only suggestion I have here is that this system be made more transparent, in that there is a clear announcement in the Site Info board about how moderation and the appeal process works.

On this site, we have a great many active users and only a small handful of staff (some really active, some not as much). As members of the majority, the PF Family, everyone has, really, the right to complain or suggest changes. The staff, as the minority in this example, has WHAT, exactly, responsibility to appease, protect and serve (pardon the pun!), dictate or otherwise maintain the abstract notion of a cyber (that is: impersonal, anonymous) yet friendly, welcoming community?

The way I see it, you pretty much only have the social responsibility to be fair. And really that's just a nicety... you don't HAVE to do it. But then if you weren't doing it then we don't HAVE to stick around. Honestly, I think that the current balance of fairness is close to perfect. You have no responsibilty to appease anyone other than yourselves. You OWN this site, after all. It's not like you ban people on sight.

At the end of the day this site is friendly and welcoming. I actively stay away from the Intros and Safe Zone for the main part, specifically because the repetitive minutiae of newbie questions frustrates the shit out of me. But the very existence of these boards is a testament to the effort to create a friendly and welcoming place.

You can't please everybody. But you also don't have to please everybody. Some people just need to pack up and go elsewhere. There are plenty of other places on the internet that the dissenters can go to throw their 'it's not fair' tantrums.

I'm not asking for approval!

Well you have it anyway. So there.

I'm asking for people's own ideas of an acceptable level of involvement. In *your* world, what would you LIKE to expect from your community leaders? Hands off? No holds barred? Martial Law? On the spectrum of Anarchy versus Oligarchy, where do you all stand?

I guess the problem is that my ideas of an acceptable level of involvement are what you are already doing. Which makes this post not terribly constructive.

I've seen hands off. I've seen no holds barred. I've BEEN the martial law. I don't want any of those things. I want a place where I can be opinionated but be pulled up if I get too snarky. I want honesty and transparency. I want a place where the long term members are held to the exact same standards that I am (as a not-new-but-relatively-short-term-member). I want a place where the only 'favouritism' is based on respect earned and an ability to see when the favourites are in the wrong. I want a place where I can SEE that the rules are being upheld and that certain behaviour wont be tolerated. I want a place where I don't have to respond to the inane newbie questions because someone with more patience will do it for me. I want a place where the inane newbie questions are modded so that impatient jerks like me CAN'T scare the newbies away.

Eh. I like it here. And apparently I'm not alone. So obviously you're doing something right

[MaskedOne]

Re: The High and Mighty PF Staff

The polite pm option shows up in one of Thal's FAQs but given how long those are, it's easy to miss. The example of a successful appeal that comes to mind is also more that a post was spared from Juni's wrath and then spared from mine when I went clearing things in a thread instead of an entire thread decision being reversed. Appeal by assault and rebellion is so common that some of us might suffer a heart attack if a legitimately polite and persuasive appeal arrived.

I will say that even unsuccessful appeals have value. To borrow the example of Luce's satire thread that he's occasionally cranky about. Staff did take a second look. The internal decision was that evidence of satirical intent was present. This did not save his thread* but it did mean that we were far less inclined to apply ban-cannon first and ask questions never when his name next showed up in a staff discussion.

*I will offer neither explanation, apology or a second appeal. The issue is closed. It just happens to be a convenient example.

[Rae'ya]

Re: The High and Mighty PF Staff

Appeal by assault and rebellion is so common that some of us might suffer a heart attack if a legitimately polite and persuasive appeal arrived.

I can imagine. People tend to get snarky when they have their knickers in a twist.

On a serious note... sometimes I despair at the basic lack of coherent though. I mean... I understand being pissed off and feeling self righteous when a mod tells you that you're out of line. But really? Hows about we exercise a brain cell or two and actually THINK before we respond with vitriol. Seriously. What do people expect?

I absolutely do not think that staff are out of line when they respond to these 'appeals' with banning or further warnings. And I certainly don't think that staff are being overly harsh in these situations.

[Dez]

Re: The High and Mighty PF Staff

...particularly if the "appeal" in question starts with calling the mod names.

[Roknrol]

Re: The High and Mighty PF Staff

...particularly if the "appeal" in question starts with calling the mod names.

Oh yeah? Well, Juni pointed out to me that when I demoted myself I rejected the "Supporter" title (for a variety of reasons, but one of the big ones is that I needed to be completely "hands off" for awhile. I had to. If I had stuck around in any sort of perceived managerial capacity people would have been looking to me for answers, and that wasn't my place anymore).

Well, she reminded me about that yesterday.

So I would like to request that the Mayor of the Lollipop Guild to bump me to Supporter if he is thusly inclined. I promise I won't comment on your small...hairy feet, your short...attention span, your itty bitty....amount of patience for bullshit, and your so-small-its-nearly-invisible...uh...penis sense of propriety.

Oh...and this is completely the wrong place for it but I'm lazy - while you're deciding to follow through or put me in my place, could you check and see why I can't give Karma (again)?

(In case there are other contenders, the above was actually intended for Chain. If there're any other Mods or Admins under 4'7" though, I probably won't notice the difference)

(see, Chain, you *had* to remind me that I used to give you no end of shit about your height. What, did you think I grew out of it?)

[ChainLightning]

Re: The High and Mighty PF Staff

For you, Rok, I might just see if I can find a ladder to be able to reach the buttons. But I'd still need one of you giants to move the thing for me.

Oh, yeah! About your inability to work the karma thing? It's probably Alzheimer's. It'll come back to you ...and, if it doesn't, you'll likely forget who you wanted to be giving that karma to, anyway.






/offtopic

[ThePaganMafia]

Re: The High and Mighty PF Staff

5 years ago I was an opinionated, know it all, little shit and was only banned once. This place is moderated fine.

AND Im GOOD at pissing off people with colored names.