The Concept of Modesty

[Medusa]

Re: The Concept of Modesty

Now I can't, and won't presume, to speak for everyone, but for me it's not the stares that bothers me. Those that want to stare can go right ahead and do so, most people who dress in an out-of-the-ordinary or attention calling fashion know very well we will get stares, that was never the problem. It's the remarks, catcalls, ect that pisses me off. I didn't dress this way for other people, they can keep their damned comments to themselves.

I have to ask. Don't dress what way? I dress for me as well. But sadly when I step outside the door the world is not made up of me alone. I have to share with everyone.

[MoonRaven]

Re: The Concept of Modesty

I have to ask. Don't dress what way? I dress for me as well. But sadly when I step outside the door the world is not made up of me alone. I have to share with everyone.

What way? Any way. I don't care if we're talking skimpy tops and shorts, full goth mode, pretending you're Queen Amidala going to address the Senate. Whatever way you choose to dress. And yes when you go out the door you share it with the world, that's why I said that I don't mind being stared at, I expect it.
Personally I have a penchant for very nerdy clothes and semi-cosplaying even on ordinary days - could tell you a couple of stories of dressing in "semi-elvish" or "jedish" clothes when at work. But what legitimizes that other shout after me on the street or come up and lecture me about appropriate behaviour while we're waiting for the train? They're not my boss, they're perfect strangers who doesn't know me, yet thinks it's okay to inflict their opinions on me.
(Needless to say I tend to have some very snarky comebacks about their clothes too for such situations.)

The bizarre thing here is I have a male colleague who dresses in similar ways and he can't recall ever getting one single comment that wasn't praising, I could give him an encyclopedia of comments that was snide, derogatory or just plain nasty.

[Medusa]

Re: The Concept of Modesty

Do you find it to be mostly women or men who come up to you to comment? Maybe it's my age. No one would come up to me and say anything. Then again I'm a scary sleeved gal. I know it happens. I just don't get it happening to me. And yeah, I was once a goth kid myself. I know how that can go with the stares.

[Rae'ya]

Re: The Concept of Modesty

I'm not particularly modest. I wear short shorts and singlets (aka tank tops) pretty much all summer. And I wear a bikini in public. I have very little shame. I walk around naked in my own house. I strip off in front of my mother and my sister and my niece and nephew and my female relatives. I'll strip to my g-string and bra in front of friends. I'll wear briefs and a singlet/tank in front of my stepdad and my brother in law and the room service guy.

I've never been commented to though. Or noticed any particular looks. But maybe that's just 'cos I'm a bit oblivious about things like that.

[Carlin]

Re: The Concept of Modesty

Is it just me, or does anyone else get very bothered when you're told you're not modest?

No one's ever said anything to me but then I do tend to dress quite modestly. I prefer to be covered up, although that comes from having been much larger at one point than I am now - I still think of myself as big. I live in a diverse neighbourhood where a lot of people dress modestly and I fit right in.

If someone were to tell me I wasn't dressed appropriately I'd be offended - what someone wears is no one's business but their own.

[Heka]

I'm not particularly modest. I wear short shorts and singlets (aka tank tops) pretty much all summer. And I wear a bikini in public. I have very little shame. I walk around naked in my own house. I strip off in front of my mother and my sister and my niece and nephew and my female relatives. I'll strip to my g-string and bra in front of friends. I'll wear briefs and a singlet/tank in front of my stepdad and my brother in law and the room service guy.

I've never been commented to though. Or noticed any particular looks. But maybe that's just 'cos I'm a bit oblivious about things like that.

Bout same.

I also rarely wear bra/undies around my house.

And in summer, I get home after work and strio. Totally naked. Sometimes I'll wear a very lose sarong, but that works more for creating air flow than protecting my modesty...

[DanieMarie]

Re: The Concept of Modesty

Now I can't, and won't presume, to speak for everyone, but for me it's not the stares that bothers me. Those that want to stare can go right ahead and do so, most people who dress in an out-of-the-ordinary or attention calling fashion know very well we will get stares, that was never the problem. It's the remarks, catcalls, ect that pisses me off. I didn't dress this way for other people, they can keep their damned comments to themselves.

I agree with this.

The problem with the kind of culture that finds catcalls and comments acceptable is that it's not really about modesty AT ALL. It's about the objectification of women. When I was younger, I'd get straight-up harassed on a regular basis, no matter what I wore. I even got followed on several occasions. I could be wearing a tank top (less modest), shorts and t-shirt (do not even tell me that a pair of normal-length shorts and a t-shirt is immodest in July!), jeans and a sweater, or a freaking winter jacket that went to my knees. It didn't matter. As an attractive woman, I always felt like I was on display, whether I wanted to be or not. I still feel like that sometimes, but I'm getting older so it's (thankfully) slowing down. People can say women ask for that kind of attention all they want - a lot of women do not dress for other people or try to bring that kind of attention upon themselves, but they get it anyway. I have no level of comparison, but I don't even think it was my looks....I think there are just men out there who see a young woman and see that as an opportunity to get lippy.

[Shahaku]

Re: The Concept of Modesty

I think to a certain extent, modesty (or more to the point dress code) does matter. We are social creatures and part of a society. To an extent, we need to fit in to that culture/society/community. And a big way that is done is through the clothing we wear. If you don't care about being accepted by said society, then why does it matter if people in said society comment?

Does that mean that catcalling and other rude such behavior is acceptable? Not really, it's rude. But if you are going to dress in an attention-seeking manner then you should expect comments. If someone walks up to you and says that they don't think it's appropriate, they're within their rights to comment.

I don't think it's appropriate for women to walk down the street in bikini's. I certainly don't want to see folks walking around half naked. I don't like seeing men in speedos or walking down the street without a top on either. At the pool is one thing. Just out and about? That's another. It bothers me. And it bothers a lot of people. And we have a culture that doesn't view it as acceptable and that matters.

Is that right? Just? Fair? I don't know. I'll have to think about it.

[DanieMarie]

Re: The Concept of Modesty

I think that if it's a perfectly fine context for a man to go shirtless, then a bikini top is perfectly fine. Is it something you should wear to a mall or running errands? Probably not. Is it something you should wear to get a slurpee in a beach town? Why not? Where I grew up, people do it all the time and a bikini top is not considered an invitation to make lewd comments.

[Roknrol]

Re: The Concept of Modesty

What if the itty bitty black bikini was on a five foot gal about 300?
Of course you wouldn't be able to actually see it...but you get my drift.

You will be surprised to hear this, but my opinion has changed.

I think modesty as a concept is retarded. We are born human and naked and trained to hide that fact for the rest of our lives. We are embarrassed to discuss our bodies and by proxy our emotions.

Fuck modesty. I want a nice big piece of property so that nobody can bitch when I play outside naked.

[kalynraye]

Re: The Concept of Modesty

Coming from a home of five brothers I wouldn't say I dress modestly I'd say I dress for the occasion. If I am home alone or home with my other half then I wear what I want. If we have company, I have all required items on, same with being out in public or on my way to work and so forth. I think there is a certain amount of appropriateness for every situation. But I also believe in being happy and comfortable in what your wearing. However my problem is never with what I have on its with my language choice.
As I said five brothers and I work in a kitchen. I cuss like a sailor and I don't bite my tongue. I will call you out when your wrong and I don't put up with bs. That's where I'm told I should be modest or I should act like a lady. Dress eh, but telling me to change my behavior that gets me going.

[Medusa]

Re: The Concept of Modesty

So human wear clothes because of our training.

I'm guessing Inuits are wearing those furs because it's fashionable. God bless their naked butts in the snow.

[Cerdivae Song]

Re: The Concept of Modesty

Oh wow, I didn't expect this post to get this much heat. ;w; I will reply post haste! But first! I must fold clothes.

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LOL - I'm very modest in public.

At home, I don't wear pants.

Never come for a visit when you're not expected

Hehe, me too. Except I'm mostly naked. >w>

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Hmmm ... Honestly, no. That being said, I tend to be more modest than some. I like clothes, and I like clothes to cover me. So I suppose the question to me instead would be "Do you get bothered if someone tells you to stop being prudish?" And in answer, any kind of judgey sort of comment directed to me in that way (that is, someone telling me 'Stop being so prudish") would bother me a tad, yes.

The judging may be what bothers me. I don't come up to other people and say: "Woow, I don't like the way you're dressed, dress this way instead."
Because that is literally what people say.

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People tend not to actually come up to me and say anything about my behavior and or dress.
They know better.

I wish! It might be your demeanor? Or age? Probably both. People don't hesitate to tell me what I'm doing "wrong". (Aka, tell me that my opinions/hair/religion/the way I dress are shit.)

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I am with nbdy here. Before I get out of our flat I try to find something normal to wear. Not something very fabulous. Something normal, that's all. It's ok to want to dress good. It just means these people try to enjoy their life.

I think people can dress however they want! c: So that they are comfortable and feel good about themselves. I guess because I live in conservative Iowa, I can't wear anything short or flamboyant without people wanting to shove their clothing opinions down my throat.
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What if the itty bitty black bikini was on a five foot gal about 300?
Of course you wouldn't be able to actually see it...but you get my drift.

I agree with B! I still wouldn't have any complaints. c:

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The "funny" thing is that it's mostly, if not exclusively, women who gets the you're not modest/too prudish comments, as if everyone else gets a say in how we dress or why we do so.
We should dress nicely, but not too provocatively. We must wear makeup, but not too much. We should "make something of ourselves", but if we care too much how we look we're "shallow". I mean it's been ages since the story of Kraka was first told, but it still feels like we're all her.
(Maybe I should take this to the rant thread...)

This is why gender roles suck. >n<

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I see girls all the time on the bus just dressing in a way that says 'Hey! Look at me!'. But they don't get that EVERY single eye will be on them. Even the ones they don't want. I don't say a damn thing. I don't judge. I don't have to. They will learn the lesson the easy way (as in some mean girl mall rat calling them out on their waist high shorts that show their camel toe) or in that other way we all say doesn't happen because of what we wear, or shouldn't happen because of what we wear, but does, indeed happen because of what we wear.

The thing is, according to many studies I've read "modestly" dressed women get catcalled and raped as much as "immodestly" dressed women. In one of the study's interviews, a rapist stated that he was more likely to attack a girl who had more clothes on because he would assume she was submissive.

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If it's on display, people will look at it.

If one doesn't want to be looked at, one doesn't put oneself on display.

But those who put themselves on display and then get pissed because others look at them are acting like idiot children.

IMHO.

As aforementioned to Medusa, it doesn't matter what you wear, you're going to be looked at (and most likely lusted after) by someone.

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I'm not particularly modest. I wear short shorts and singlets (aka tank tops) pretty much all summer. And I wear a bikini in public. I have very little shame. I walk around naked in my own house. I strip off in front of my mother and my sister and my niece and nephew and my female relatives. I'll strip to my g-string and bra in front of friends. I'll wear briefs and a singlet/tank in front of my stepdad and my brother in law and the room service guy.

I've never been commented to though. Or noticed any particular looks. But maybe that's just 'cos I'm a bit oblivious about things like that.

You and I sound similar. c:

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Do you find it to be mostly women or men who come up to you to comment? Maybe it's my age. No one would come up to me and say anything. Then again I'm a scary sleeved gal. I know it happens. I just don't get it happening to me. And yeah, I was once a goth kid myself. I know how that can go with the stares.

The number is pretty close between those two genders, but I think it's women mostly.

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You will be surprised to hear this, but my opinion has changed.

I think modesty as a concept is retarded. We are born human and naked and trained to hide that fact for the rest of our lives. We are embarrassed to discuss our bodies and by proxy our emotions.

Fuck modesty. I want a nice big piece of property so that nobody can bitch when I play outside naked.

YES!! I agree all the way.

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So human wear clothes because of our training.

I'm guessing Inuits are wearing those furs because it's fashionable. God bless their naked butts in the snow.

Wearing clothes and adhering to the concept of modesty are two different things. XD

[Roknrol]

Re: The Concept of Modesty

So human wear clothes because of our training.

I'm guessing Inuits are wearing those furs because it's fashionable. God bless their naked butts in the snow.

Awfully reductionist of you lately :-/

Yes, that's exactly what I said. Care to read that again with a bit of common sense?

I did not say that there was no practical use for clothing, only that I thought the conventions of not being allowed to be naked was a problem. Not sure why you could find issue with that.

If you'd prefer I don't answer your questions, just say so.

[Luce]

Re: The Concept of Modesty

Is it just me, or does anyone else get very bothered when you're told you're not modest?
It bothers me because modesty is a concept. And I don't care for it, so I don't really care whether you think I am or not. >n<
Stop telling me to put on more clothes; I don't like them.
Stupid, short rant, but I did need to get it off of my chest.

When people say things like that, the best response is to smile, call them a self-righteous asshat, and move along in your life. Without them.