daughter left at playground while mom works..

[Heka]

Wait, doesn't maccad have playgrounds in the US? Could she have played there, or wasnt there one?

All this talk abiut privilege makes me feel super guilty. I'm like, over privileged. I'd have to be upper middle I think. And I feel guilty cos I'm proud of it. *sigh*

[thalassa]

Re: daughter left at playground while mom works..

Wait, doesn't maccad have playgrounds in the US? Could she have played there, or wasnt there one?

All this talk abiut privilege makes me feel super guilty. I'm like, over privileged. I'd have to be upper middle I think. And I feel guilty cos I'm proud of it. *sigh*

A few do...but not all of them. Many McD's are removing them because "liability". Most McD's around here are trying to go for the "internet cafe" look. We used to have 6 or 7 within a 20 minute drive--no there is one left, 40 minutes across town.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: daughter left at playground while mom works..

You cannot imagine what the class system is like until you've lived in the UK! I'm staunch working class, flag waving fully paid-up-member of the Awkward Brigade. Over here the story was met with a certain amount of indignation (although having said that, we're really not in any position to claim an moral high ground whatsoever.)

Poor woman. And poor little girl, too. And all the others who find themselves in similar situations.

[kalynraye]

Re: daughter left at playground while mom works..

McSpecialSauce

Questions to discuss:

~Compassion? Yay/no way
~How old is old enough to be out all day at the local playground?
~Is the system broken that a single mom can't work and get help with daycare?
~Overall impressions?

Lets start this off with something simple. I have FIVE brothers and TWO sisters that makes EIGHT of us total. At one time with age difference and marraiges and the likes there was always five us living in the house not including parents, and yes we were poor. No middle class here. Lived in a trailer park that was predominately hispanic for most of it. However my father never let us go without. Man worked his ass off and taught me and most of my siblings the same thing. I also was taught an amazing sense of community from the people in my park. If you need help or needed something someone always managed to have extra.

Now that being said. We were left alone for hours on end to feed and take care of ourselves. Especially in the summer. They couldn't afford child care for four or five kids. It was hard enough to feed us sometimes. I am going to defend this woman. She is trying to support her child, put a roof over her head, feed and cloth her, and if anyone has a problem with that then they can pay for all of her needs themselves. Medusa of course you were getting into trouble at 15 and 16 years old in a park thats what we do in that age. This child was 9 and it was daylight. I know there are bad people out in this world but there are a lot of good ones too, and more often then not a parent will keep an eye on someone else's child at a park because they want safety for all.

Your also suggesting that this girl has no common sense and doesn't know how to walk away or avoid a sticky situation. I don't believe her mother would send her to the park if she didn't believe the girl could at least understand that 1. you don't take candy from a stranger 2. you don't take rides from a stranger or anyone that you have not been specifically told is going to pick you up. 3. you don't help a stranger find something they have lost. If the woman thought her child was going to be in danger then she wouldn't have sent her to the park.

We as Americans have started this coddling of children over the last generation. My youngest sister is 12 years younger than me and turned 16 this last month. She cannot do any of the things that the rest of us could. We had our permits as soon as we were able and jobs at 15 some of us 14. Her mother has coddled her to no end. She has no independence no drive NOTHING!!!! This infuriates me. We are creating worthless, lazy individuals. We are also not preparing them for the real world. Why would you do that to your child? You have done nothing to insure they can survive without you.

[MoonRaven]

[B. de Corbin]

Re: daughter left at playground while mom works..

""Free-Range Kids" promotes events like "Take Our Children to the Park and Leave Them There Day." Skenazy says leaving kids in the park without adult supervision teaches them grit. Kids get used to bugs, rocks and a lack of constant supervision. They become leaders by discovering how to organize their own lives without parents bossing them around."

America Needs More Free-Range Kids

[Luce]

Re: daughter left at playground while mom works..

We're more fun than you really wanted.

[Denarius]

Re: daughter left at playground while mom works..

tolerated by the locals, but when they start shooting at each other in the streets the gloves comes off and people start informing on the to the cops.

A lot of people are more worried about getting shot by the cops than they are by gangsters, and that belief is not entirely unwarranted. Plus all the pressure to not report people for crimes.

[Medusa]

Re: daughter left at playground while mom works..

Your also suggesting that this girl has no common sense and doesn't know how to walk away or avoid a sticky situation.

.

1. I don't recall making any judgement on the daughter.
2. I came from a neighborhood where I lived across the street from my elemetary school. This was during a time when children were being taken by force into a white van and molested. No one was giving them candy. It was straight up grab n go. Terrifying. I lived in an area where at 9 I had a man pull up besides me on a street and show me his penis and try to get me into the car. I lived in an area where also at 9, living in a huge block apartment complex, a man also showed me his penis at the apartment laundry center where I could walk about 10 paces from our front door. I lived in an area where also at about 10, I was waking to a neighbor's apartment and this young teen trapped me into the trash dumpsters and tried to have his way with me. I took a bottle to him. I also lived in an area where my direct neighbor who my mother was babysitting his 2 little boys, molested me while he taught me cooking lessons. He was a Marine. I never said a word.

That's where I'm coming from. People don't do that stranger danger here's some candy little girl stuff anymore. They just rape you.

That's where I lived. So don't tell me I'm judging.

[kalynraye]

Re: daughter left at playground while mom works..

That's where I'm coming from. People don't do that stranger danger here's some candy little girl stuff anymore. They just rape you.
That's where I lived. So don't tell me I'm judging.

Never said you were judging I said your not giving her credit. I was raped but not by a stranger but my dads best friend at the time while my dad ran to the store to pick up a gallon of milk so we would have breakfast in the morning. We were all asleep and he was suppose to be watching us. So I've been there and I've done that, and I will also disagree with you they do still do the stranger danger. Thats totally fine I'm ok with not agreeing with you but if someone wants a child they are going to tell a child anything. Including the heres some candy bit.

The world is a hard place and full of bad people but I think there are some good people in this world still otherwise there would really be no point in living. I also don't think if that mother didn't have some faith in the neighborhood and her daughter she would have made her sit in a booth while she worked.

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Also I must make a correction. Its not you I'm going after, I'm not going after any one person in particular. I feel we have come to a point where we don't think a child should ever grow up. They shouldn't have to make decisions, everything is puppies and rainbows. They aren't taught to clean up after themselves, or held accountable for their actions. Mom and Dad will do everything for them or make excuses for them. There is no need for independence, or responsibility. I defend this woman and back her because I think shes doing the best she can with what she has, and maybe just maybe at the same time letting her child grow a little..

Of course I could be completely wrong and she could really not give a damn about her and wanted her out of her hair...

[Medusa]

Re: daughter left at playground while mom works..

Never said you were judging I said your not giving her credit. I was raped but not by a stranger but my dads best friend at the time while my dad ran to the store to pick up a gallon of milk so we would have breakfast in the morning. We were all asleep and he was suppose to be watching us. So I've been there and I've done that, and I will also disagree with you they do still do the stranger danger. Thats totally fine I'm ok with not agreeing with you but if someone wants a child they are going to tell a child anything. Including the heres some candy bit.

The world is a hard place and full of bad people but I think there are some good people in this world still otherwise there would really be no point in living. I also don't think if that mother didn't have some faith in the neighborhood and her daughter she would have made her sit in a booth while she worked.

Look. No 9 year old girl is never ever going to be as smart as an adult. It's not happening. No matter how smart you think your kid is (your in general, not you you). I have compassion for the mother in this hard situation. But leaving your kid at a park is the last choice she probably wanted to make. You just hope to god nothing bad happens. If I had kids, I wouldn't do it. And I stand by that.

[thalassa]

Re: daughter left at playground while mom works..

Look. No 9 year old girl is never ever going to be as smart as an adult. It's not happening. No matter how smart you think your kid is (your in general, not you you). I have compassion for the mother in this hard situation. But leaving your kid at a park is the last choice she probably wanted to make. You just hope to god nothing bad happens. If I had kids, I wouldn't do it. And I stand by that.

But a kid is never going to learn (by gaining experience) if we don't give them the opportunity to do so. I don't think there is enough to information about this story to say that this was a crappy choice or a wrong choice (all I can say is that its wasn't an optimal choice). I will say though, that arresting the mom and putting the kid in the DCFS system is overkill to the extreme. Whether or not sending your kid to a park alone is a good idea or not depends on too many variables--where I live, a day at the park with no parents following you around is awesome and a 9 year old running around is a-okay...in some places its an invitation to be shot or raped....and apparently now, if you will get arrested for it.


Some other things I've run across to add to the story (damn it Jodee, when you post this shit, because I spend more time looking at other stuff about the story ):

*there is no law against her taking the kid to the park--SC (like Virginia) doesn't have any "Home Alone" laws
*Apparently this park is an under 10 minute walk for the girl, to her home for which she has a key
*And its a pretty nice park, I watched a couple of news clips--there's a splash pad, there's apparently a community free lunch program for kids not in school
*the kid is reportedly an honor roll student, which to me, indicates she probably has enough common sense to a) find a cognizant adult, b) call her mom on the cell phone she gave her, or c) walk home and use the key to her home to go home depending on the appropriate reason for why she might not want to be at the park anymore
*Crime is down to 1960's levels and statistically speaking, a child is more likely to be molested by their piano teacher than random creep at a park
*The kid asked to go the park rather than stay home or go to work with mom


I'm sort of here:

Statistically speaking, the South Carolina mother would almost certainly be putting her daughter in more danger if she strapped her into the car beside her for a hypothetical one-hour daily commute. No one would arrest her for that. It wouldn't surprise me if the child would more likely suffer harm sitting in a McDonald's in front of a laptop, presumably eating fast food at least reasonably often, rather than spending summer days playing outdoors in a park with lots of parents. I can't say with certainty that she'd be statistically safer. But neither have the South Carolina officials who arrested this woman.

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/07/arrested-for-letting-a-9-year-old-play-at-the-park-alone/374436/

[DanieMarie]

Re: daughter left at playground while mom works..

I don't know the area so I think it's hard to comment. Different places are safer than others.

However, I do see a big difference where I grew up. When I was growing up, we walked to school by ourselves, even in the younger grades. We were allowed to play in empty lots and parks by ourselves. Around that age, we were allowed to go to the store and start playing in the big forested park by ourselves (we had to stay within "shouting" distance, and yes, there were bears and cougars in that park, so we weren't allowed to go there without adults unless there were at least 3 of us). I started babysitting and going home by myself after school at 10/11. I was allowed to take the bus downtown by myself at 12. Most other kids in my neighbourhood had the same rules.

But now it's so different. There are so many more rules than when I was a kid. Parents don't want playground equipment like monkey bars because they don't want broken limbs. They freak out if kids go to the park alone. They would NEVER let their kid take the bus. It's not any less safe than when I was growing up...it's more or less the same place. It's just that people are more paranoid. It's really sad.

Here it's still like it was when I was growing up. Probably even moreso. 9 year olds take the subway without parents allll the time. They go home alone. And yes, they go to the park alone. It's a big city (one of the biggest in Europe), but I have to admit that the crime rate is pretty low.

As for the questions:

~Compassion? Yay/no way - total sympathy for her. Whatever the crime/social situation is there, this is clearly a story of a low-wage working mom who couldn't afford daycare.
~How old is old enough to be out all day at the local playground? If I was home or somewhere else near by, could come of something was wrong and the playground was nearby, then around 7. If I wasn't at home or available to come when called, then around 9 or 10.
~Is the system broken that a single mom can't work and get help with daycare? Yes. I am a strong supporter of universal daycare. This is 2014. We work, for the large part. We need a system of state-funded child care that supports that.
~Overall impressions? This sucks.

- - - Updated - - -

Scandinavia and Berlin sound really similar in those ways. Berlin isn't actually a "rich" city by any means (it's one of the poorer ones, by German standards), but there isn't really anywhere that's not safe.

[Medusa]

Re: daughter left at playground while mom works..

No matter what experiences we've all had...this mother needs help and not the law breathing down her back. For sure.

[kalynraye]

Re: daughter left at playground while mom works..

No matter what experiences we've all had...this mother needs help and not the law breathing down her back. For sure.

I completely and utterly agree with you on this one.