Weight, Health and Social Image

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: Weight, Health and Social Image

Why is it the business of "society" to intrude into any personal choice I or anybody else makes?

If any other personal choice were being discussed (ranging from whether or not to carry a baby to term to whether or not to marry someone of the same sex) people would loudly (& proudly) exclaim "It's my choice. Get out of my life!"

Yup! For the most part, it takes being of a certain age, and it always takes being of a certain temperament, to do that. In high school I lived on 700 calories a day to look "fashionable" - not bony. I'm 5'4" and was 110-120 lbs. back then. Escaping the clutches of what others want you to look like isn't for the faint of heart!

[anunitu]

Re: Weight, Health and Social Image

The truth is,none of the stereotypes used in the media are random. it is used to make you think "I can be cool,if only" fill in the stereotype. Everyone wants to be unique and different and end up being clones of everyone else. "Gotta have these shoes to be cool",must wear these jeans to fit in,must drink "Whatever cola"...getting the gist? TV trains us as young people to be intimidated if we don't follow the latest trend. Outside,no friends,so we work to fit in the mold.

That is why all the "Models(stereotype)" keep changing too,to sell new stuff. Truth be told everyone is just fine being themselves,but the powers that be can't sell stuff If you feel good about being just yourself.

My last word "Let your freak flag fly"

[Shahaku]

Re: Weight, Health and Social Image

Why is it the business of "society" to intrude into any personal choice I or anybody else makes?

If any other personal choice were being discussed (ranging from whether or not to carry a baby to term to whether or not to marry someone of the same sex) people would loudly (& proudly) exclaim "It's my choice. Get out of my life!"

In my opinion, it's an issue when someone is receiving state aid. I don't believe it's wrong for the state to require people live up to certain levels of health and wellness while living off the funds they provide. This includes not using drugs and buying wholesome food with the money the state provides rather than junk. And I don't believe it is wrong for the state to ask that people receiving state insurance work towards health goals including a healthy weight in conjunction with a doctor, especially if the person is morbidly obese.

Can society take that too far? Yeah, and it's not right. It's another form of discrimination. But the above is an aspect of where I think it starts.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Weight, Health and Social Image

OK, that makes sense.

One more reason to avoid becoming a ward of the state.

[Medusa]

Re: Weight, Health and Social Image

See I have an issue with people singing songs/spreading the message that its ok to be overweight. I have nothing against bugger people, hell I'm not skinny, but society is telling people it's ok to be fat. And dissing people for being skinny.

Sigh

/endrant

Girl. What society are YOU living in. Every day society doesn't want me to tell the world how fabulous I am in a size 14.
Ef them.

Being ok with your body when you are thin is ok.
Being ok with your body when you are fat is AGAINST THE LAWS OF THE EFFING UNIVERSE.

That's my rant. With a side of marshmallows.

[Azvanna]

Re: Weight, Health and Social Image

One song and "society" is telling people it's okay to be fat? Seriously? :wtf:

Anyway, I like the song and it's definitely got a place. If I were out at a club feeling self conscious because I don't look as hot by this current society's standard this song would encourage me to just relax and enjoy myself.

On a side note.. what body type "society" pushes as desirable isn't necessarily what's healthy. It's what is an indication of wealth.

[Heka]

It's not just the one song, thats just what promoted my comment.

I have no issue with how you look at all, unless you are hurting yourself, or others with your weight, which is definitely a health thing.

But I see links between societies growing size, and their perceptions on what is 'normal' and 'healthy'.

And I say again, this is partly a personal rant. I am pretty healthy generally, I eat well (if a little much), and look after myself. I should probably do more exercise. And yet I am fatter than I wish to be, especially around the stomach (which is the highest risk area for excess fat). I also have a double chin, which I didn't used to have. And every single person I have mentioned that I want to change, lose weight and get fitter tells me that I'm perfectly fine and normal. I strongly believe this is because society is fatter than it was.

Yes, this isn't always an unhealthy thing, but where I live, excess weight is nearly always related to poor diet and lifestyle. In fact, I couldnt point out anyone who is bigger that doesn't have a poor diet etc.

Anyway I enjoy a good conversation/debate at any time, I like having my views challanged and getting the opportunity to develop them, but so far I don't feel like I'm getting that here. I dunno. It's bothering me. But whatever.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Weight, Health and Social Image

Anyway I enjoy a good conversation/debate at any time, I like having my views challanged and getting the opportunity to develop them, but so far I don't feel like I'm getting that here. I dunno. It's bothering me. But whatever.

Heka, I understand where you're coming from.

But, what I can tell you is this:

I'm 55 years old. A huge chunk of that time has been spent sorting through the very mixed, very chaotic, totally incoherent "messages" sent by all the different factions of "society," each with its own particular bone to pick.

Everybody who speaks has something different they are selling, and they'll use any cheap trick they can to get you to buy in. There is little honesty, and little integrity, in most of it - if any at all. It's mostly self-righteous bullshit being foisted on the gullible.

If you want to be human - truly and fully human, in control of your own life and your own destiny, this John Prine song might help:

"Spanish Pipedream"

She was a level-headed dancer on the road to alcohol
And I was just a soldier on my way to Montreal
Well she pressed her chest against me
About the time the juke box broke
Yeah, she gave me a peck on the back of the neck
And these are the words she spoke

[Chorus:]
Blow up your TV, throw away your paper
Go to the country, build you a home
Plant a little garden, eat a lot of peaches
Try and find Jesus on your own

Well, I sat there at the table and I acted real naive
For I knew that topless lady had something up her sleeve
Well, she danced around the bar room and she did the hoochy-coo
Yeah she sang her song all night long, tellin' me what to do

[Chorus]

Well, I was young and hungry and about to leave that place
When just as I was leavin', she looked me in the face
I said "You must know the answer."
"She said, "No but I'll give it a try."
And to this very day we've been livin' our way
And here is the reason why:

We blew up our TV, threw away our paper
Went to the country, built us a home
Had a lot of children, fed 'em on peaches
They all found Jesus on their own

But I'm selling something too. It's called "freedom." Only thing is -I'll admit it, and I don't care if anybody buys it or not. I got nothin' to gain...

[thalassa]

Re: Weight, Health and Social Image

The first problem is that what the medical community considers the "right weight" (as indicated by the BMI) isn't very scientific. Really, nearly every single measurement of body weight/body size and what it means in terms of health is riddled with problems and complexities that no chart or magic formula can punch out a number and determine. What the "right weight" (and what we *really* mean by "right weight" is how much body fat) is for each person is highly individual and TBH, requires quite a bit of time and resources to determine--what insurance company is going to pay for MRI's for a doc to tell you to lose weight when they can use a 200 year old useless formula that means nothing?). And evolution-wise, what we consider healthy (BMI wise) is probably underweight (survivability wise)--a big brain and its accompanying neural tissue requires a huge energy input which (from an evolutionary perspective) requires body fat in times of food not being plentiful (ie, there's a reason why people like high calorie foods AND why we are able to digest them AND why our bodies hang on to every cal)--think about it this way, the "goal" of evolution is to pass on genes to a third generation, not to maximize life span ("skinny" doesn't bake babies very well when there's famine or epidemic).

And the thing is (and is supported in studies) telling people they are fat (regardless of how you phrase it) is less likely to do any good than talking about health...so if someone tells you that you are fat and it changes your behavior, you are atypical (as it is with alcohol or smoking). All it does is a) make people less likely to try or b) cause people who want to be more healthy do things that are worse for their bodies or more likely for them to fail (like dieting or adopting an unrealistic exercise plan). As a society we should be focusing less on weight and more on health--on people having affordable access to healthy food, walkable communities, greenspace for outdoor play in every neighborhood, PE and recess every day in every school, teaching kids and families (better funding for SNAP and WIC could make nutrition and cooking part of benefits) how to shop and prepare healthy foods (bring back home ec!), restricting corporations that market junk food from advertising directed towards young children (just like we do alcohol and tobacco), and (in the US) subsidizing healthy foods instead of corn for corn syrup (also soy)...and on teaching people to love their bodies, and how to take good care of them (goodness knows the stree hormones involved in hating yourself, regardless of size, has to be at least as bad as whatever other unhealthiness there is).

Someone else mentioned it...but what we call a "healthy" weight in Western societies is about what the society considers attractive, and what is considered attractive is more about wealth than health. And that is pretty much the standard quo throughout history. I wish I could find it again...but a while back, I ran across a scholarly on the topic

I'm not saying that being fat is healthy and everyone should go out and gain 50 pounds, I'm just saing that judging someone's health by their weight isn't accurate. And judging someone's worth based on their weight (by way of what sort of effort they are going to) is just wrong. My old roommate could fold a large pizza in half and eat it in one sitting--he looked like a model, he never worked out and he ate like a slumber party of pre-teens every single day...his BP and cholesterol was through the roof, but he could run a mile in 8 minutes (and he seriously never worked out). But by societal standards, he's healthy! There is far more social pressure to look good than to feel good. And if you can do what you need to do in life--keep up with your kids, get your job done without discomfort, enjoy the activities that you enjoy without injury, clock in at a good BP when you see the doc, not have any nutritional deficiencies, does it really matter what the number on a scale says?

The problem isn't being fat. The problem is not being fit. And yes, plenty of fat people aren't fit. But so are plenty of people at optimal weights (or less).

[Rowanwood]

Re: Weight, Health and Social Image

^^ What she said.


What it really comes down to..is you want to be thin? GO FOR IT. But don't strut around acting superior and screaming "health" because its not a fact. It's vanity, plain and simple. It's fine, but let's be real.

The only times in my life I've been considered normal weight (like a min BMI of like 22 even) was when I survived on diet coke, cigarettes and very little else. I would legitimately not eat for DAYS. Clearly I was not healthy. My doctor suggests I have a goal weight (considering my specific body, muscle content, bone structure, etc) that my BMI would work out to 29. Just BARELY under obese. I'm several pounds into obese now and she thinks I'm doing quite well, just have a little room for improvement (I do and that's true)

I don't see why I should hate myself, flog myself and wear a mu-mu because I might offend someone. I don't even see how I'm offensive. And I REALLY don't see why enjoying myself is anyone else's business.

No one else is in charge of my health but me and you can't SEE health based on a number on a scale.

I promote feeling good about yourself. The world is going to hate you no matter what you do.

[Heka]

^^ What she said.

What it really comes down to..is you want to be thin? GO FOR IT. But don't strut around acting superior and screaming "health" because its not a fact. It's vanity, plain and simple. It's fine, but let's be real.

The only times in my life I've been considered normal weight (like a min BMI of like 22 even) was when I survived on diet coke, cigarettes and very little else. I would legitimately not eat for DAYS. Clearly I was not healthy. My doctor suggests I have a goal weight (considering my specific body, muscle content, bone structure, etc) that my BMI would work out to 29. Just BARELY under obese. I'm several pounds into obese now and she thinks I'm doing quite well, just have a little room for improvement (I do and that's true)

I don't see why I should hate myself, flog myself and wear a mu-mu because I might offend someone. I don't even see how I'm offensive. And I REALLY don't see why enjoying myself is anyone else's business.

No one else is in charge of my health but me and you can't SEE health based on a number on a scale.

I promote feeling good about yourself. The world is going to hate you no matter what you do.

Sigh, another conversation that boils down to 'people/the world sucks'. Ah well.

[thalassa]

Re: Weight, Health and Social Image

Sigh, another conversation that boils down to 'people/the world sucks'. Ah well.

Yeah...but its getting better!

Slowly, oh so slowly.

I think the problem is that we aren't equipped to factor in that many variables yet. Humans have a tendency to think problems occur in a vaccum and there should only be one solution...because, in the past, things appeared that simple. Our (public, societal) understanding of the way the world works hasn't caught up to reality yet, and that reality has just begun to be understood by scientists in their various fields over the past couple decades.

Cultural knowledge lags behind individual understanding which lags behind professional and technological discoveries...I'd guess at least by one, if not two generations. And in some countries and communities, even more.

I liken it to the decay of a glacier...its a slow, uneven process, taking decades, until--crack, boom, splash (if the glacier termintates in the ocean) and all that is left are a few icy patches here and there.

[nbdy]

Re: Weight, Health and Social Image

Society as a judging game. It just wears me out. On one hand, we do have to exercise some measure of discernment in order to choose the world we want to live in. These become society's norms, and a lot are important for maintaining a peaceful and safe existence. On the other hand, this seems to devolve into pettiness and competitiveness that creates discord where none is needed. Social life is a constant negotiation. It is exhausting.

[Willow]

Re: Whatcha listening to?

Society is sufficiently schizophrenic that I refuse to give it credit for actually having a consistent message on weight (or most other things for that matter).

This is essentially my take on society's "messages" too. I weigh about 100 lbs, my husband weighs significantly more. And to be honest, if he wasn't on the chubby side, I wouldn't be attracted to him. But he's perfectly healthy. I'm the unhealthy one in our little duo; being skinny doesn't necessarily make you healthy.

[Nicholas]

Re: Weight, Health and Social Image

My weight, health and social image are all the same. I really don't care what I weight because of my metabolism, my health doesn't matter because I don't get sick. And I don't care what others think of me.
Nicholas Brandow