I'm a sexy feminist!

[Ophidia]

Re: I'm a sexy feminist!

The way I understood it was that feminism was about the right to choose.

Instead of being expected, even forced, to be barefoot & pregnant, or a stay-at-home mom, or always under the supervision of a male chaperone, she isn't mentally or emotionally bound by what society wants her to be. A feminist chooses her role in society. And if she's in a society that makes it illegal for her to make choices of her own because she's a woman, then she fights for that freedom.

Yes, there are other groups of people in the world fighting for their own freedom to choose - but 'feminist' is specific to women and those who fight for a woman's right to choose her own role. It doesn't undermine or diminish the struggle other groups of people have, it may intersect the struggle other people have, and a woman can be a feminist and still want everyone else to have equal rights.

So yes, if a woman chooses a 'traditional' lifestyle or uses her sexuality to gain favors, if she chooses to have children or to be child-free, if she is the one making her own decisions, her own choices, then she is a feminist.

[jcaternolo]

Re: I'm a sexy feminist!

Those who use their bodies to get ahead in life are known as attention whores (pun intended). There's nothing wrong with being unafraid of one's sexuality, but they should not flaunt it to get an advantage over others.

[Rowanwood]

Re: I'm a sexy feminist!

Those who use their bodies to get ahead in life are known as attention whores (pun intended). There's nothing wrong with being unafraid of one's sexuality, but they should not flaunt it to get an advantage over others.

Does this just apply to breasts and a nice ass or should using strong muscles also be banned? Unless men's bodies are sacred and women are just whores, that is. I mean, just to be clear.

[thalassa]

Re: I'm a sexy feminist!

Plus (in addition to RW's comment), that is totally not the proper use of the term...

[volcaniclastic]

Re: I'm a sexy feminist!

Those who use their bodies to get ahead in life are known as attention whores (pun intended). There's nothing wrong with being unafraid of one's sexuality, but they should not flaunt it to get an advantage over others.

I'm physically strong, and I use my strength (my body) to get the types of jobs I want, in a male dominated field.

I must be a whore.

[Gleb]

Re: I'm a sexy feminist!

In my opinion one doesn't have to be feminist in order to use her sexuality. As far as I understand, feminism says that women and men are equals. I don't see any connection of feminism with sexuality.

Can a feminist be religious? -Why not?

Can feminist be an at home mother who conservatively believes the father is the head of household?

In my understanding, if one of the couple is a feminist, then there should be no head of household. They should rule it together as equals.

[Medusa]

Re: I'm a sexy feminist!

Thal, you are right about what head of household can sometimes means. So I apologize to Daniemarie. My bad. :shy:


Now a feminist wants to be on equal footing with men and rights and what not. A man uses what he has male wise. A woman uses what she has female wise. Both are equal, just different tools. At least that's how I feel. It's easier for me to use the tools I have then to try to steal a man's tool. Unless it totally fits the situation.

[DanieMarie]

Re: I'm a sexy feminist!

Thal, you are right about what head of household can sometimes means. So I apologize to Daniemarie. My bad. :shy:


Now a feminist wants to be on equal footing with men and rights and what not. A man uses what he has male wise. A woman uses what she has female wise. Both are equal, just different tools. At least that's how I feel. It's easier for me to use the tools I have then to try to steal a man's tool. Unless it totally fits the situation.

Sure...I think that can still totally be feminist. Like, most dudes are taller and better at changing lightbulbs (we only have a half-ladder, so I still can't reach the light bulbs with that ladder!) and lifting heavy furniture and jazz like that. If a couple wants to divide work along traditional gender roles and makes that decision together, fine...that can be feminist. What's -not- feminist is to automatically expect the woman to do the cooking, cleaning, and child care just because she's the woman and to expect the guy to do all the yardwork and repairs because he's the man. Like, I suck at cleaning...I hate it when people say that women are just "naturally" better at it than men. Women are -usually- better at it because women are usually raised doing it, but that's not always the case. In my case, both my brother and I had chores, but I always half-assed them as much as possible. I'm just not naturally organized...I can do well enough to not totally live in filth, but my outer space will always be a bit cluttered, no matter what I do. My boyfriend, on the other hand, is super outwardly organized and CLEAN. Like, he gets into corners and all that jazz. Anytime I clean anything, he's always like, "you missed x, y, z." It used to drive him crazy, and it still does sometimes, but we're learning how to divide work better. I'm actually better at organizing inner spaces like drawers and cupboards (it's how I balance my outer chaos!), whereas he's more of an "out of sight, out of mind" person and tends to just shove things in drawers and cabinets at random. Anyway, I'm glad I'm in a "feminist" relationship (so to speak) because we can work all that stuff out and I'm not just expected to take on all the housework by myself (which I would find overwhelming for two people and especially overwhelming for a family). I don't feel I'd be -less- feminist if I were better at that stuff and did more or all of it myself, but I'd still want to have some clear say in the matter.

As for using sex appeal to get jobs, I guess I should be more clear. Both attractive men and women tend to move up the career ladder faster, and pretty much every career advice book/column/whatever ever written tells you to look your best at interviews, important meetings, and stuff like that. There's nothing wrong with that...I think where it stops being feminist is when women rely on that alone and expect that to get them ahead over any skills they have. Looking good is not a skill and it should not stand alone in the workplace. It's like how some men who were raised pretty traditionally still (usually unconsciously) expect to get ahead because they're white, middle-class dudes. It doesn't matter either way; your appearance alone shouldn't dictate how far up you move in your career. You have to have something else going for you, whether that be a strong set of work skills, the ability to network and collaborate with other people, or a strong work ethic.

[Medusa]

Re: I'm a sexy feminist!

You should read The Satanic Witch. It teaches you how to use all your feminine tools to get ahead in life. Sexuality is a big one. I won't deny using the biggest hammer in my arsenal. I have no if ands or butts about it.

If a woman CHOOSES to use sexuality as her sole tool (well girl, do it as long as you can because we know that don't last forever) and she does so to give herself power in her life? That's her decision. I won't deny her being a feminist.

I thought being a feminist was all about being able to make your own decisions. Am I wrong? Or is there an agenda going on that I don't see? Is being a feminist mean I can use what I want but not only sexuality and whatever else you've decided constitutes being a feminist for this gal on the other side of the world from you? Because I'm not trying to be mean. Just trying to be direct.

Technically I don't have to have anything else working for me. Unless that's just your particular definition of what passes as a feminist for you. And in all honesty? I have a different list. We both have no idea what a feminist is outside of our own idea of it. It sorta sucks. Which is why I dislike the word feminist. Every woman wants to attach their own agenda to it based on their own criteria (or lack of it in my case)

If being a feminist is about being equal it should not have a select attached list of one person's particular oks for the rest of us. Not being equal but only in this particular order or way or percentage of tool usage.

I have to go to bed. I only got up because I got freaked out over the ending of a book. I don't mean to be cut about things. I'm sleepy.

[DanieMarie]

Re: I'm a sexy feminist!

To me (and a lot of other feminists), being a feminist isn't about choosing to do whatever you want; it's about equality. When I mean "using sexuality", I sort of mean putting on a bit of a show for men in some way or form. Maybe I'm seeing it from the wrong angle, but to me, the term means pandering to men's fantasies. It's not really using *your* sexuality as a woman, but using *their* sexuality, if that makes sense. I don't find that very conductive to equality and I don't think it helps the overall conception of women as equals to men.

Who knows, though. I actually have to think about this a bit, because I think that in a world where women's fantasies got more public attention and in a world where men got sexier *for* women, I wouldn't have such an issue with things being the other way around. I guess in that world, I wouldn't have issues with people playing on the fantasies of the other sex to get ahead. So maybe my feelings have less to do with women doing it and more to do with how one-sided it is.

[Heka]

You should read The Satanic Witch. It teaches you how to use all your feminine tools to get ahead in life. Sexuality is a big one. I won't deny using the biggest hammer in my arsenal. I have no if ands or butts about it.

Pretty sure there is a butt about it.... *hawhawhaw*

I feel a bit trolly today. Please ignore.

[thalassa]

Re: I'm a sexy feminist!

IMO: I concur on the idea that feminism is about equality rather than choice--specifically, that women (as a group) are of equal standing to men (as a group) in social, political, and legal terms. Realistically, that equality confers the ability of choice--not just to women, but also to men. When men and women are truly considered to be of equal value, then it won't be a "big deal" (culturally) for a man to make the choice to be a homemaker. The act of choosing alone is not feminism, the ability to choose is the result of feminism (though defending the ability to choose is also feminism....whether you like the word or not).

[monsno_leedra]

Re: I'm a sexy feminist!



Equality is not always what its cracked up to be

[thalassa]

Re: I'm a sexy feminist!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3418[/ATTACH]

Equality is not always what its cracked up to be

The second picture is equity, rather than justice (both equality and equity have a role to play when it comes to justice). If you look at equality and equity as two separate processes by which one seeks to achieve fairness, then yeah, the picture is accurate (though mislabeled). But, if you look at equality as the outcome, then equity is the way to achieve it (and it ends up looking like the second picture). Also, the image is about equal vs equitable distribution (as two processes) not about the people themselves having equality...

Equity is about individuals. Equality, on the other hand, is about the relative status between groups in a given situation.

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: I'm a sexy feminist!

I have no idea what constitutes "feminism" today. When I was 12, it was about being able to wear pants to school, and as I grew up, seeing the Help Wanted ads no longer specify "male" or "female" (Yes, they used to be separate sections.) Then, it was about being able to get credit, buy a car, house, etc., without a male co-signor. Roe v. Wade came about in the middle of all that.
I don't care what other women choose to do - you want to be a stay at home housewife? Fine. CEO? Fine. Just leave me alone to do what I want. Thank the Gods I'm old and was born at just the right time to live an independent life. People are still fighting for the same stuff. One of the most telling, and the saddest, things I've seen was Barbara Walters' last day on The View, when someone asked her if she thought things had changed for women over the years. She paused, and very poignantly said, simply, "No."
I agree. We have rights on paper, but they aren't really RIGHTS if they have to be constantly re-defended. It's such b.s.