Hello Brothers & Sisters

[Munin-Hugin]

Re: Hello Brothers & Sisters

I have grown up with the idea that belief is toxic.

I am, by nature, argumentative and have been told that I can come across as an instigator, so please take what I may say from time to time with a grain of salt. Amusingly, I have read in the past that that is a trait commonly found in Heathens and Asatruar. With that in mind ...

How can you propose to teach something that you do not believe in, at least when it comes to something of this nature? ESPECIALLY for something of this nature. Magick, divination, spells, etc all MUST rely upon the belief of those involved for the will to be enacted. (In fact, I'm going to be starting a topic that this has brought to mind). I know that you spoke of taking ideas and putting them into practice until you found something that worked, but from my experiences, I have found that things do not always work the same for everyone. I have, in the past, struggled to get results from certain rituals and the like that others have sworn by, while the way in which I approach things may just crash and burn for them. I would like to posit that what you call "comfortable awareness" is simply just a fancy term for the fact that you believe.

[Keldorn]

Re: Hello Brothers & Sisters

I sometimes forget to include the link to where I got the material. The selection you referenced did include where the material was found at the end of the article.

No it had a name that could be googled for more information. It did not have a formal citation which might under other conditions been appropriate or for that matter the bare minimum of a link to the original which would have been more appropriate had you used another source. In this case, however, the only appropriate way to post that material in the manner you did was with the express written consent of the Copyright holder because regrettably you did not merely plagiarize a random web site. You plagiarized a site with

Copyright 2013, Become A Living God Inc, All Rights Reserved. Become A Living God and E.A. Koetting are trademarks and/or service marks of Become A Living God Inc. All emails sent to E.A. Koetting become the property of Become A Living God Inc.

at the bottom and this places your site one DMCA complaint from being shut down. Giving credit does not automatically absolve you of flagrant copyright violation. That material should not be on your site without written permission from Become A Living God Inc.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Hello Brothers & Sisters

I may return to this subject in a day or two in my official capacity (waiting for opinions from other staff members) but speaking simply as someone who has been on the net for a while, I also have something to say here.

I said I would come back to this in an official capacity so here we are:


Illustrious's website and the running there-of is his concern and neither I nor any other staff member have legitimate authority to give orders regarding it. However, review of elements of his website have revealed direct copy-paste of copyrighted material. While I distinctly dislike copy-pasting anyway, copyrighted material comes with a number of very pointed legal protections and simply giving credit is not enough to satisfy those protections. PaganForum has no desire now or ever, to give even the appearance of connection to a site actively in breach of copyright law. While there is any remaining concern regarding this issue, links to his site will not be tolerated. I have removed all links that I'm aware of and will remove any links posted henceforth. This policy will be enforced without warning, exception or mercy until further notice. To be clear, until further notice, there are absolutely no valid reasons to post a link to that site. If there is a question regarding this policy, please PM one of the staff.

[Rae'ya]

Re: Hello Brothers & Sisters

I don't normally get involved in introduction threads, but your presence here seems to have caused something of a stir, so I thought I'd poke my head in. I've not been around much for a few weeks, and I've honestly not bothered to look at your website except when the original question of your validity came up, many months ago. With MO's dictate that we are not affiliated with your site, I don't think I'll bother revisiting it, either. I have read all of your posts here so far, but I came in rather late to the whole kerfuffle. So with that in mind, let me offer you up a relatively unbiased opinion, as someone who wasn't here when you initially appeared...

Hello, I am known as Frater Nostro in the magical order I created, called the Ordo Aeon Astron (O∴A∴A∴)

...

I think of Black Magick as a magical approach wherein the magician works his Will upon the Earth. I am not "evil", or interested in destructive magick. I am interested in using magick for two reasons: to bring about, or manifest, all my material desires. Also to gain knowledge through communion with spirits! I am pursuing my idea of Godhood, with is basically my descriptor for autonomous sovereignty - the freedom to live a life I desire, more or less!

We have relatively few practicing ceremonialist magicians here. The tricky thing about that is that while the philosophies are not all that complex, the jargon and presentation of them tends to immediately alienate new ceremonialists from the majority of the members here. This can make it very difficult to integrate yourself into our community, because 'starting off on the wrong foot' is a very easy trap for a zealous new ceremonialist to fall into (and yes, I very much consider 10 years of practice to still be 'new' when it comes to ceremonial magick). Unfortunately, you had also had the temerity to make your first few posts a diatribe against our community and their discussion about a website and person whom they had never met or spoken to. You got upset about what was said, which is understandable, but please keep in mind that all our members had at that time was your website. And from what I recall, the conclusions that were drawn matched what was presented to us.

This can all be overcome, but it will take a little time. Tread carefully, practice a little humility, and you may get there. Unfortunately, many ceremonialists tend to feel that humility is beneath them... try not to fall into that trap. Attempting to attain ascension and godhood includes embracing such things as humility, self knowledge, self realisation and the ability to step beyond the Ego. When reading and learning about ceremonial magick, particularly the workings of people like Crowley and his contemporaries, it's important to read between the lines. To take their teachings at face value is to miss the point, and unfortunately many CM's never realise that and continue to plow their way through life in much the same manner that you plowed into PaganForum. We have very little patience for that sort of thing here, as you may have noticed.

My history with magick:
When I was 13, I discovered I had a natural talent for empathy. I'm sure you all know what this is! I can feel the emotions of others within myself, as if they are my own emotions. This got me thinking that life is much deeper, basically that there is much more to life than meets the eye!

A few years and experiences later, I dedicated my life to magick and the pursuit of knowledge. I began to seek out spirits. I started by seeking out and communing with spirits of the forest, most particularly the spirits of trees.

When I was 18, I discovered Satanism. I took very well to the ideology of bringing about one's own will through ritual means. Molding one's life to suit his desires. After a short while, a spirit began talking to me.

It turned out to be Lucifer. Lucifer began instructing me of the flaws of the ideology that I was calling my own, and he began aligning the very world to bring about my ascent to power and knowledge. Lucifer has since been my foremost "deity." I requested his light and guidance to help me become a light in the darkness of life.

I've always been somewhat sensitive of my spirituality, thinking that people would see me as being a crackpot, and so far my experience on this forum has basically been what I am accustomed to =/. People who saw my site, the O∴A∴A∴ Black Temple, said that I seem like a crackpot and a drug user? Honestly all I want is to fit in with other practicing magicians and feel like I'm part of a group =/

Anyways, that's me, just looking for friends

Age should not be an important factor in the validity of a practitioner's practice, but I admit that I am tempted to ask how old are you? Your syntax and your usage of things like =X and =/ put you in your early to mid twenties? This is relevant because you are claiming ten years experience as justification for setting up your own temple, teaching newcomers, and accepting payment for your services. Now I know some precocious and intelligent early-20-something's, but honestly? If this is you, take a step back, earn a few more notches for your belt and try again in a few years. Ceremonial magick is a lifelong pursuit that you have only just scratched the surface of. If you are serious about your practice and about your goals, you'll devote more time to your own practice, and less to trying to make a name for yourself. It is actually not possible for you to have achieved proper ascension yet... the magicians of the HOGD practiced for fifty years before they even claimed to come close. This is an ongoing, lifelong path that will take you decades of spiritual evolution. Ten years is not enough experience upon which to build a temple and teaching practice.

In truth, I haven't charged a single person for anything. I copied that particular entry because I couldn't have explained it better myself! Sometimes when something I wish to explain or share has already been done by somebody who I don't feel I could explain any better, I copy and paste it. I sometimes forget to give credit, in this case however I said at the bottom of the article it was found on Become a Living God. It isn't meant to have anything to do with me, it's a method I found a lot of success with and wanted to share!

The others have harped on about this point enough, so I wont flog a dead horse here. But I implore you to listen to Keldorn and MO on this one... there are serious legal ramifications regarding this.

In terms of magick, it's lifelong learning. I've been practicing for 10 years now though, and I am in a position to be able to teach others.

No, you aren't. Not in my book. In my book, you're still a baby. In Ceremonial Magick, you aren't ready to start teaching others until you have enough decades and grades behind you to back up your position as a teacher. And I don't mean working through your own grade system, I mean attaining those positions in an establish organisation BEFORE branching out on your own. If you base your temple on Thelemic systems, then make sure you have reached high grades in a Thelemic temple, THEN start your own and start teaching others. It's true that you can teach anyone, anything that you already know. The trick is... do you actually know it, or do you just think you do? Are you giving your students the best possible education they can get, or are you regurgitating half understood platitudes you read in a book?

I remember when I had ten years under my belt. I thought I was awesome. I thought that all those people more experienced than me who patronised newbies were just being elitist and petty. I sincerely hope that I am not construed as patronising here, but I have a feeling that's exactly what I sound like. You'll reach a point in a few years time where you'll be looking back at yourself with mortification. And then you'll join the ranks of the elitist, petty, patronising elders who either smile indulgently at humble newbies, or pick apart arrogant ones in an attempt to get them to take a step back.

The following quote succinctly summarizes my feelings regarding belief:

Oh dear. EA Koetting is not a respected magician. At least, not in serious CM, Satanist or Demonolatry circles. You may want to consider that when choosing your role models.

Of course, that doesn't mean that NOTHING he says has merit, but you need to take into consideration the reputation of your sources when attempting to construct a serious CM, Satanist, Demonolatry, Black Magick or LHP organisation or temple. There's a lot of BS out there, dressed up very suavely with charisma and marketing.

[jcaternolo]

Re: Hello Brothers & Sisters

Hello, I am known as Frater Nostro in the magical order I created, called the Ordo Aeon Astron (O∴A∴A∴)

I am practicing black magician. I'm not really sure if I'd fit in neatly in to any labels like Luciferian, Satanist, or what have you.

I think of Black Magick as a magical approach wherein the magician works his Will upon the Earth. I am not "evil", or interested in destructive magick. I am interested in using magick for two reasons: to bring about, or manifest, all my material desires. Also to gain knowledge through communion with spirits! I am pursuing my idea of Godhood, with is basically my descriptor for autonomous sovereignty - the freedom to live a life I desire, more or less!

Basically my philosophy for black magick is summed with the following:



My history with magick:
When I was 13, I discovered I had a natural talent for empathy. I'm sure you all know what this is! I can feel the emotions of others within myself, as if they are my own emotions. This got me thinking that life is much deeper, basically that there is much more to life than meets the eye!

A few years and experiences later, I dedicated my life to magick and the pursuit of knowledge. I began to seek out spirits. I started by seeking out and communing with spirits of the forest, most particularly the spirits of trees.

When I was 18, I discovered Satanism. I took very well to the ideology of bringing about one's own will through ritual means. Molding one's life to suit his desires. After a short while, a spirit began talking to me.

It turned out to be Lucifer. Lucifer began instructing me of the flaws of the ideology that I was calling my own, and he began aligning the very world to bring about my ascent to power and knowledge. Lucifer has since been my foremost "deity." I requested his light and guidance to help me become a light in the darkness of life.

I've always been somewhat sensitive of my spirituality, thinking that people would see me as being a crackpot, and so far my experience on this forum has basically been what I am accustomed to =/. People who saw my site, the O∴A∴A∴ Black Temple, said that I seem like a crackpot and a drug user? Honestly all I want is to fit in with other practicing magicians and feel like I'm part of a group =/

Anyways, that's me, just looking for friends

- - - Updated - - -

Small update:

One of my ultimate goals is to contribute to the overall magic community at large. I haven't decided how I might be able to go about this. Thinking of maybe writing a book or two?

The reason I have decided to call myself a Luciferian, is because Lucifer is not only an entity that I believe in (and respect), but a way of life. We both want to learn to become living Gods so that we can be free to live life the way we want. Lucifer is all about freedom, and Lucifer also means light bearer. Anyone who destroys ignorance with their light could be considered a Lucifer. Luciferians are basically people who believe in freedom, and the right to live the life they want. From what I understand, Theistic Luciferians have the same beliefs, except they also believe in a literal Lucifer, although Theistic Luciferians don't worship him, since he has no desire to be worshiped, and prefers to be referred to as a teacher, guide, mentor, or friend.

[Night Wizard]

Re: Hello Brothers & Sisters

Rae'ya - You've made some good points.

I am actually in agreement completely that I think it's a good idea to take a step back and continue working diligently on my own practice before resuming teaching.

The reason I began teaching, though, is because in the book which I first obtained that got me started on all of this, a book of self-initiation following the A∴A∴ Thelema structure. Therein it states that once a practitioner has advanced beyond to the grade of Neophyte and beyond, he may (and in some groups is obligated to) begin training probationers.

Thus, after I had acquired all the knowledge of and advanced to my current grade and standing, I have been teaching all that I have learned up to this point. I mostly teach the fundamentals of magick.

I have noticed many beginners struggle to find their path. I am currently working on something for this forum that I believe may help newcomers "find their place", as it were.

Jason - Lucifer is my foremost deity, my father. You have correctly identified the ideology of Luciferianism. All that remains now is for you to destroy all your ignorance. To unlearn, if you will, all that you hold that is keeping you in the dark. Destroy all that which is a chain that binds. Proceed boldly and fearlessly.

I understand you have hesitation towards what could be considered as more malevolent spirits. I guarantee that you have done nothing to garner their attention. I also do not see you as one who will insult a demon, even mistakenly. As you will proceed with evocation with caution, as you well should with evocation.

Basically, I wish it to be known that demons are not at all as the Christians have portrayed them. They have no interest in the human immortal soul. And even less interest in the body. They do not spend their time annoying unbaptized gentiles. Lesser "pest" spirits do this kind of thing, however, they can hardly be called demons though.

Spirits that consider themselves "demons" today, are spirits that have embraced that which has been mantled upon them by popular belief. For example, the Great King Paimon, a spirit that is subservient to Lucifer. One of his most trusted Kings of the Infernal Empire. He has embraced the title of demon. He has been a most respected spirit since ancient days, and today, modern people who don't understand him will fear him. He's more popular than ever! As far as he's concerned, the weak-minded fear him, and the worthy few respect him. Do ya get me? He has more respect from more people being thought of as an all powerful badass demon who can fuck you up!

[Night Wizard]

Re: Hello Brothers & Sisters

I have removed all content from my site which was plagiarized from other sites. I thought I was just being educational, however, it appears this is very bad form and unappreciated, so from this point on all articles will be written by myself, and any quotes or anything from outside sources will be referenced properly.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Hello Brothers & Sisters

I have removed all content from my site which was plagiarized from other sites. I thought I was just being educational, however, it appears this is very bad form and unappreciated, so from this point on all articles will be written by myself, and any quotes or anything from outside sources will be referenced properly.

I'll bring the issue up with staff. Any moderation in policy (if such is granted and the decision to do so is not mine alone) will not occur until after staff have had time to re-examine the site.

[satanic witch]

Re: Hello Brothers & Sisters

I have removed all content from my site which was plagiarized from other sites. I thought I was just being educational, however, it appears this is very bad form and unappreciated, so from this point on all articles will be written by myself, and any quotes or anything from outside sources will be referenced properly.

Good plus its better to write your own stuff all the quotes I use are my own and anything I post anywhere is my own knowledge it makes u feel better in the end when someone appriciates your work cause it is your work not a copy and paste fiesta

[Night Wizard]

Re: Hello Brothers & Sisters

Originally my one desire was to share knowledge, so my one concern was that everything was understood with absolute clarity. So when I found that somebody else has explained something better than I could have, I simply copied it! However, I have decided if I am to own a website, I might as well make it a source of pride in more ways than one.

[Rae'ya]

Re: Hello Brothers & Sisters

Originally my one desire was to share knowledge, so my one concern was that everything was understood with absolute clarity. So when I found that somebody else has explained something better than I could have, I simply copied it! However, I have decided if I am to own a website, I might as well make it a source of pride in more ways than one.

I would also think that if you aspire to be a teacher or mentor, you need to learn how to explain things well. A good teacher can explain concepts in several different ways in order to teach people of different learning styles. If you can't explain something well in prose form, it's possible that you shouldn't be trying to teach it to other people.

[LeviImmortal]

Re: Hello Brothers & Sisters

I'm not sure why you were met with such hostility instead of some helpful criticism, but welcome to the forum! It's great to have another LHP follower on the forum. Have fun!

[Night Wizard]

Re: Hello Brothers & Sisters

I'm actually very articulate and excel with language. Language is an art for me, and is one of the reasons I took to the occult so readily. Reciting incantations being one of my favourite aspects. Creating incantations for rituals is something I really enjoy.

It's chalked up to laziness, not bothering to write it myself when I have found it worded so excellently elsewhere!

Alas, no more of this. I am proud of the site, the order, and I am excited to see what it will eventually become. From this point on, all content will be original. Even if it takes several days to write articles & pages (which it now is) it's very worth it for the excellence of the prose. And I am very proud of the content that I am now creating.

I can see where everybody was coming from with the hostility. As soon as I was informed that there are less ceremonial magicians here than anything else (which is the exact opposite of what I had expected), it is completely understandable why people reacted as they did.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Hello Brothers & Sisters

I am provisionally raising the ban on links to

http://pathofthemagus.elementfx.com/wp/

Links will continue to be tolerated as long as no demonstrable cases of copyright violation and/or other content of questionable legality are brought to staff attention.

[Aislin]

Re: Hello Brothers & Sisters

Age should not be an important factor in the validity of a practitioner's practice, but I admit that I am tempted to ask how old are you? Your syntax and your usage of things like =X and =/ put you in your early to mid twenties?

hehe, im midish 30's and =) =/ and =P are my go to's... but i spend alot of time on social media because of my job. Just saying... <3 Pretty sure my gma's rockin the smilies!

But ya, not trying to derail.