Now we are in the deep end of the pool.

[loststarshine]

Re: Now we are in the deep end of the pool.

It involves growing beyond our history of survival of the strongest. Tolerance of other relgious views, of others sexuality, and cultures. Racism and sexism are still very alive in our world. People wil use the lose of a football game to justify a violent. assualt on another. World peace involves people looking past their emotions and looking at the world for a greater good.

The masses are too busy watching tv and dealing with trying to get by. Honestly I think a civil war is in the brews in America our police are starting to have more military influence. I will end it here before getting too off topic.

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: Now we are in the deep end of the pool.

The only people with long-range (multigenerational) views are the ones with the power - the Bushes, the Kochs, the Vatican, etc.

[thalassa]

Re: Now we are in the deep end of the pool.

And this is why all the great social programs/plans which look so good on paper, never work.

I think its because people want perfection. They don't plan for the inefficiency and waste (including fraud) inherent in any system. And then are all surprised and offended by it and quit.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Now we are in the deep end of the pool.

I, personally, am more than happy to tolerate people I don't agree with.

I, personally, believe in a "live and let live" policy.

I do not accept that, in order to have those two things, or even to encourage those two things, I have to accept mass murder (in the form of crucifixion and beheading, or any other form of execution), attempts at the genocide of an entire religion by executing the males (see previous for ISIL's preferred methodology) while burying the women and children alive, the rape, torture, enslavement and institutionalized degradation of females - young and old, or any of the other attrocities which I don't bother to mention because, compared to the ones I have they sound terribly minor.

Letting this go on is neither tolerance nor "live and let live."

It's just crap.

(I have to wonder whether some folks actually know what is going on off their front porch)

[anunitu]

Re: Now we are in the deep end of the pool.

My first thoughts about this are "Kill them all,and let god sort them out" but then I think,isn't that what "They" are doing?" How do I stop people doing evil if I myself must enter into this evil place? is it true the only way to fight evil is with a greater evil? This is not a solution,it is just my thoughts and pondering about how one finds the true place of peace.

- - - Updated - - -




Sticking this here to help from not crying about all the dieing...

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Now we are in the deep end of the pool.

I, personally, am more than happy to tolerate people I don't agree with.

I, personally, believe in a "live and let live" policy.

I do not accept that, in order to have those two things, or even to encourage those two things, I have to accept mass murder (in the form of crucifixion and beheading, or any other form of execution), attempts at the genocide of an entire religion by executing the males (see previous for ISIL's preferred methodology) while burying the women and children alive, the rape, torture, enslavement and institutionalized degradation of females - young and old, or any of the other attrocities which I don't bother to mention because, compared to the ones I have they sound terribly minor.

Letting this go on is neither tolerance nor "live and let live."

It's just crap.

(I have to wonder whether some folks actually know what is going on off their front porch)

I can see where you're coming from, and yet not so long ago this was going on in Europe - in Bosnia. And these were Muslims who were being persecuted and beyond sending in some UN peacekeeping forces (some of whom were worse than bloody useless) the west did very little.

And like others here, I wonder why - if we're so hellbent on going into other countries - we haven't tried Nigeria. And we haven't tackled Mugabe in Zimbabwe either. But then none of these places - Bosnia, Nigeria or Zimbabwe - were in the Middle East. And the middle Ease has something the west would like very much to control. Oil

[loststarshine]

Re: Now we are in the deep end of the pool.

I can see where you're coming from, and yet not so long ago this was going on in Europe - in Bosnia. And these were Muslims who were being persecuted and beyond sending in some UN peacekeeping forces (some of whom were worse than bloody useless) the west did very little.

And like others here, I wonder why - if we're so hellbent on going into other countries - we haven't tried Nigeria. And we haven't tackled Mugabe in Zimbabwe either. But then none of these places - Bosnia, Nigeria or Zimbabwe - were in the Middle East. And the middle Ease has something the west would like very much to control. Oil

Exactly. We will eliminate one threat while breeding another. America is not popular I am certain another cell will take ISIS place. A cycle that will. continue till when? When does it stop?

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Now we are in the deep end of the pool.

I can see where you're coming from, and yet not so long ago this was going on in Europe - in Bosnia. And these were Muslims who were being persecuted and beyond sending in some UN peacekeeping forces (some of whom were worse than bloody useless) the west did very little.

Uhm... No.

Actually, while the UN and NATO did nothing effective, and, while the US was playing nice with our meeker allies, the US did nothing either, much to the chagrin of those allies the US did end up going in and bombing them into peace - ending the institutionalized rape camps.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Now we are in the deep end of the pool.

But this is my point - I am not sure we can bomb anyone or anything into peace. I don't think it works that way. Because the collateral damage was horrific - and I knew people from that area, and I have visited places there that are not there any more. So yes, maybe I'm a bit more emotional about this than I should be. But bombing into peace meant destroying passenger trains (and passengers) along with hospitals, schools and homes. And it caused long lasting resentment that will cause those involved I am sure, to reap the whirlwind a few more years down the line.

Try it another way. We've mentioned beheadings and terrorism on this thread. Okay, so what about Saudi Arabia? Public beheadings for adultery??? Bin Laden and most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis? Do we regard that country as full of terrorists and therefore our enemy? Um... no. But then they've got... oil.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Now we are in the deep end of the pool.

So do nothing?

Let horrors continue?

Could try diplomatic solutions, but, if it's the deaths of civilians that bothers you, do more die with a quick military end, or fewer?

I get it. I understand. When people elect to act like psychopaths within some farcically legitimaticised organization, there are no clean, easy, pure, holy solution.

Act, and people will die in horrible ways. Don't act, and people will die in horrible ways.

I'm going to come out on the side that says "destroy the maniacs." My conscience isn't happy, but it's the best I can do.

[loststarshine]

Re: Now we are in the deep end of the pool.

^^ true...

[MaskedOne]

Re: Now we are in the deep end of the pool.

It's not like we've discussed Nigeria before and had articles posted where the US sent people to train their military in more effective means of fighting Boko Haram...

Thought I'd toss a related article in on this

http://www.defensenews.com/article/20140509/DEFREG04/305090021/US-Sending-Team-Combat-Trainers-Nigeria

looks like the US won't be personally headhunting the bastards but we will be helping train the people who do.

Err, wait. Damn, where did that come from?

[Doc_Holliday]

Re: Now we are in the deep end of the pool.

There is no other option here but violence, do nothing and we look like a bunch of jackasses while innocents are murdered mercilessly. Or bomb them, risk retaliation sure, but maybe kill even one of those bastards. Thats good for me, if we don't do it. I'll go there myself and do it. They deserve it, they are cold, they are evil and they aren't human, they are the opposite. Unlike the innocents over there they hurt and control.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Now we are in the deep end of the pool.

They deserve it, they are cold, they are evil and they aren't human, they are the opposite.

This is for better or worse, entirely and completely inaccurate on every level. Brutality, violence, ruthlessness and savagery are as much a part of humanity as any of our nobler traits and they are repeatedly demonstrated quite graphically. That doesn't make hunting these scum down and eradicating them any less justified but don't delude yourself into thinking that they aren't human. That denies the simple truth that any human being given the right incentive could choose to become just as bad or worse.

[Doc_Holliday]

Re: Now we are in the deep end of the pool.

In my opinion (Since what emotional and personality/mental traits make a human a human is purely a psychological question, so this is very debatable.) A human is rounded, we all have savage sides sure. But a human, or somebody who is more human than scum has all sorts of sides. Happy, sad, giving, taking, forgiving, vengeful. Thats the human experience and what makes a human, not "KILL, KILL MY ENEMIES, CAUSE TERROR, KILL THOSE WHO DISAGREE, SLAUGHTER INNOCENTS."

Inhuman to me.