Darren Wilson not indicted

[thalassa]

Re: Darren Wilson not indicted

And this, apparently, has been the presiding viewpoint ever since. What I'm seeing unfold in Ferguson is no different that what I saw in Brooklyn decades ago, except there's no Mayor John Lindsay being carried in on the shoulders of the crowd and respected by pretty much everyone.

I don't disagree...except that we largely know better now. Or, at least, we should know better by now. We have about 50 years worth of data on crowd psychology, police enforcement, etc. We just don't use it. My MIL is a retired detective and was a cop for nigh on 30 years--she's an uber-right wing conservative law-and-order type, and she's one of the first people that will tell you that this is as much about decades of poor policing as it is about the individuals involved and their actions.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Darren Wilson not indicted

Not really any different than the riots in Washington D.C. in the late 60's. Burn everything to the ground then scream they had no business to shop at and no one wanted to come in there afterwards to open new business. End result many of those areas are still slums to this day because of it. Then scream its all racist because its mostly people of black ethnicity in those areas and they are being held back, held down and deprived because the whole infrastructure and business base is gone for the most part.

Likewise with Detroit. It went from being the New York of the midwest to a standard trope of urban decay - primarily due to riots that occurred over 50 years ago.

[anunitu]

Re: Darren Wilson not indicted

There is a whole school on the effect of crowds and how they can go way off.

http://csi.sagepub.com/content/61/5-6/584.abstract

Crowd control,and how it can go bad in a hurry.

http://www.the-scientist.com/?articl...Crowd-Control/

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Darren Wilson not indicted

I don't disagree...except that we largely know better now. Or, at least, we should know better by now. We have about 50 years worth of data on crowd psychology, police enforcement, etc. We just don't use it. My MIL is a retired detective and was a cop for nigh on 30 years--she's an uber-right wing conservative law-and-order type, and she's one of the first people that will tell you that this is as much about decades of poor policing as it is about the individuals involved and their actions.

We haven't yet hit the point where concilience kicks in. One day, we'll be able to put all of our knowledge together, and actually use it, but not today...

[anunitu]

Re: Darren Wilson not indicted

When I was in Hong Kong,a friend and I walked right into a Mao rally,giant picture and all. We both were wearing our navy uniforms, It would be an understatement just how fast we vacated the area...

[anunitu]

Re: Darren Wilson not indicted

When I saw this video,my mind went WHAT??...really credibility gone out the window. I really am shocked by this,and for me to be shocked takes a lot.

Truly there are no words.

I believe there is a law about inciting to riot.

[Arella]

Re: Darren Wilson not indicted

From what I understand, anunitu, it's Michael Brown's mother and stepfather that is causing more trouble. I guess his biological father is trying to get the protestors to stop.

[anunitu]

Re: Darren Wilson not indicted

Also saw something on TV,and their lawyer tried to blow it off as grief inspired,but it will not help when people view this video,and also see it on TV.

[LunarHarvest]

Re: Darren Wilson not indicted

There isn't enough oversight of the police. I disagree with the patchwork of procedures and policies (and training) for police officers in this country that result in force being the first response--police are not the military...statistically and just common sense, it doesn't work. The police are not an occupying force and their fellow citizens are not "the enemy", and if they want to do their jobs more effectively, then they need to stop treating the communities they are suppose to protect like its a war zone or a cruddy action movie.

Likewise, the people need to show respect for law and for authorities of the law. People need to stop thinking of themselves as being above the law, or only that the law applies at their convenience, and that they will not be punished for infractions of said law. There is a culture of unlawfulness which is brewing in some areas, and it only contributes to the problem of an epidemic of a lack of respect for law and order. Officers of the law are citizens just like those whom they enforce law upon, and dehumanisation of the police that I see in some places is absolutely despicable. Police brutality does exist, but no nearly on the levels some people try to display it as.

Regardless of this, there is nothing that can justify the behaviour of these people in their rioting and burning down buildings and other property, as well as the general unruly and unlawful behaviours of these groups. Especially since they are doing so in the name of a cause proven false.

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: Darren Wilson not indicted

They shut down the Lincoln Tunnel in NYC? Seriously? The only way to end all this is to refuse to participate. Don't be a bully, & don't be a thug.

[Arella]

Re: Darren Wilson not indicted

Also saw something on TV,and their lawyer tried to blow it off as grief inspired,but it will not help when people view this video,and also see it on TV.

I agree, anunitu. You can be grieving over someone and not act like this. Many people grieve and don't go around trying to incite a riot.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Darren Wilson not indicted

The cynic in me says no prosecution no money for wrongful death and suing the city / state. Thus no payday for the grieving mother, father and step father.

[thalassa]

Re: Darren Wilson not indicted

Likewise, the people need to show respect for law and for authorities of the law.

Just because playing devil's advocate is fun...

Why? Why should someone show respect for a system that doesn't work for them, and hasn't worked for them practically ever in the history of this nation (except maybe for a couple of years in the the 60's)? Why should any one follow a system simply because it is there, that they perceive as bought and corrupt (which often is true), that they perceive as unduly biased against them, and that they perceive as routinely abusing and exceeding its authority (which is also often true)? Why should someone respect an authority that they percieve as having done nothing in their community (and isn't even part of their community--in this case, most of these officers live outside of Ferguson) to earn that respect? I mean...if we all respected the law because it was the law, women wouldn't vote, we'd still have slavery, and we'd all be Christian--I stopped believing in the Bible because it said so, long ago... If people don't think the law is there for them, and hasn't ever been there for them, they aren't going to respect it--its not a should/would/could situation, its a simple fact.

I'm not saying rioting is the answer or the correct response to anything (then again, where would we be as a nation without the Boston Massacre?). I'm just saying that the argument that justice wasn't done is easy to make--considering the burden of guilt is pretty much zlich for a grand jury and grand juries almost always convict...except when its a cop. I get why people would be pissed.

[anunitu]

Re: Darren Wilson not indicted

Ok Thal..Devils advocate,now attack it from the other side. I know you have that double personality working for you. Just do like Robert Deniro would do with Method acting.

Ya know I just want to see you in action,right?(Thal arguing with herself...Hmmm)

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Darren Wilson not indicted

How broken is "the system"? Beyond repair? Then revolution is inevitable.

If it is not beyond repair, than repair is preferable to destroying 'a' system only to replace it by another badly flawed system.

The cost of revolution is very, very, very high, and seldom effective (the American Revolution is a notable exception. It is worth noting that in the American example, the revolution was led by colonial governors, successful colonial business men, and colonial military officers - not armchair theorists with no actual political experience, aside from revolutionary acts).

Until the benefits outweigh the costs (lost lives, lost parents, lost children, hunger, disease, destruction of property, destruction of infrastructure, destruction of the means of production, wasted farmland and destroyed crops, etc.) political action is better than violence.

Unfortunately, violence seems easier and quicker - until one actually stops to evaluate exactly what violence brings with it to the party.