Which to use for learning a new language?

[Jembru]

Re: Which to use for learning a new language?

がんばって! I need to get back into the swing of language study :s

I'm seriously considering getting out of the swing! I've been studying intensively for around 3 and a half years now. I started studying seriously because my light dabbling hadn't produced many results and I wanted to be fluent. So I've studied for an average of 8 hours a week and I've been very organised about how I use my study time. I guess I haven't used the language as much as I'd have liked. I'm too shy to chat to anyone I don't know well via skype, and I find 1:1 conversations a bit too intensive, so face to face social gatherings have been where most of my Japanese is used (excluding the written exchanges via facebook, and the journal I keep on lang-8). I practice free speaking by keeping a video journal too though, so overall I'd say I've been a good student.

Yet my skills aren't where I'd like to be, and definitely not where I believe they should be for my effort. I sound fluent, especially to the newer learners who look up to me as though I'm something to aspire to, but my grammar is terrible, I find advanced or fancy vocabulary hard to remember, and nothing I do seems to change this. While real life conversations are generally okay for me, I struggle to follow movies or dramas unless they're aimed at teenagers or younger. It's as though I just can't learn. I was the same learning English. I was tested for learning difficulties but they said it was just my learning style didn't suit classroom style teaching. I had to take special classes for several years, and I couldn't spell consistently until I was in my 20s.

Maybe a tutor could help, although I don't think I'd get the quick results I'm looking for, and I'm finding myself too nervous to commit and book that first session. I get anxious the first time I chat to someone online even if it's in English, never mind Japanese.

It's killing me, but I think I need to accept that I'm just not good enough to master Japanese. I can keep on pushing against this wall.. keep on wasting hours of my life slugging away at my desk while all I do is get older and more and more dejected. Or I can be thankful that I have achieved a usable level and I'll at least always have that, then move on.

I just wanted one thing that made me feel special. Just one thing. I guess some people just aren't designed to be special..

[Willow]

Re: Which to use for learning a new language?

I would say that the fact you've stuck to Japanese for this long, with this much discipline, and gotten farther than anyone I know has ever gotten without having lived in Japan for several years has; that you've definitely achieved that special-ness. Have you considered taking a break for a week or two from it? Just to give yourself a little bit of breathing room? I have to do that with Slovene or else it starts to eat away at my sanity. And then I come back a week later and I'm actually able to see and appreciate how much I've actually retained (even though I still have some amazingly-bad accent that makes my husband laugh).

[Jembru]

Re: Which to use for learning a new language?

I would say that the fact you've stuck to Japanese for this long, with this much discipline, and gotten farther than anyone I know has ever gotten without having lived in Japan for several years has; that you've definitely achieved that special-ness. Have you considered taking a break for a week or two from it? Just to give yourself a little bit of breathing room? I have to do that with Slovene or else it starts to eat away at my sanity. And then I come back a week later and I'm actually able to see and appreciate how much I've actually retained (even though I still have some amazingly-bad accent that makes my husband laugh).

I have a friend who is very good at Japanese as a second language and she actually advised me something similar. She apparently stopped studying for a whole year. In that time she still used her Japanese to speak to friends sometimes, and she watched Japanese dramas and read novels, but otherwise, she did nothing to actually study the language. She said that before she knew what was happening, she just somehow started understanding everything so much more clearly. When she came to start studying again, the material seemed too simple for her.

My fear is that if I stop studying I'll just forget everything I once knew. I had studied Japanese years ago and quit to study German. During that time I forgot almost everything I once knew.

Maybe a few weeks of passive study would let me test the water so-to-speak. It might help to convince me that I'm not going to forget everything I once knew if I skip a few anki reviews. Of course, if I DO forget everything, it might just make my anxiety worse. Well, it's got to be better than quitting completely I guess.

I've stopped thinking about my accent. ^^ Someone showed me some clips from an anime in which one of the characters is from England and speaks broken Japanese. Her accent is so exaggerated and I laughed when I heard it. Then soon afterwards, I was playing back one of my video journal entries and I could kinda recognise those foreign characteristics. I thought my accent was quite native-like until then. I guess not though. ^^

[toxicyarnglare]

Re: Which to use for learning a new language?

I've stopped thinking about my accent. ^^ Someone showed me some clips from an anime in which one of the characters is from England and speaks broken Japanese. Her accent is so exaggerated and I laughed when I heard it. Then soon afterwards, I was playing back one of my video journal entries and I could kinda recognise those foreign characteristics. I thought my accent was quite native-like until then. I guess not though. ^^

Just wanted to pop in and ask, was that character Karen from Kin-iro Mosaic?

Also, just to say something on topic, I've been holding off on learning Japanese for so long, and all this info on different resources will definitely help when I need it.

[Willow]

Re: Which to use for learning a new language?

I have a friend who is very good at Japanese as a second language and she actually advised me something similar. She apparently stopped studying for a whole year. In that time she still used her Japanese to speak to friends sometimes, and she watched Japanese dramas and read novels, but otherwise, she did nothing to actually study the language. She said that before she knew what was happening, she just somehow started understanding everything so much more clearly. When she came to start studying again, the material seemed too simple for her.

My fear is that if I stop studying I'll just forget everything I once knew. I had studied Japanese years ago and quit to study German. During that time I forgot almost everything I once knew.

Maybe a few weeks of passive study would let me test the water so-to-speak. It might help to convince me that I'm not going to forget everything I once knew if I skip a few anki reviews. Of course, if I DO forget everything, it might just make my anxiety worse. Well, it's got to be better than quitting completely I guess.

I've stopped thinking about my accent. ^^ Someone showed me some clips from an anime in which one of the characters is from England and speaks broken Japanese. Her accent is so exaggerated and I laughed when I heard it. Then soon afterwards, I was playing back one of my video journal entries and I could kinda recognise those foreign characteristics. I thought my accent was quite native-like until then. I guess not though. ^^

I think as long as you still read/listen to/watch Japanese sources, you'll retain it.

I love exaggerated accents... they're amazing. ^^

[Jembru]

Re: Which to use for learning a new language?

Just wanted to pop in and ask, was that character Karen from Kin-iro Mosaic?

I don't know the name but that was the anime. I watched a few episodes to see if I could get into it but I don't like those girly anime voices. I can ignore it if it's only one or two characters, but when everyone sounds like a violin being strangled, it just grates on my nerve fibers. Shame, because I loved the concept. I'm not sure what you call the female equivalent of a bromance, but I had exactly that kind of relationship with a friend who moved back to Indonesia last summer. So I could really relate to the story.

Also, just to say something on topic, I've been holding off on learning Japanese for so long, and all this info on different resources will definitely help when I need it.

Good save ^^. Well if you need any advice on where to start, that's one thing I can definitely help with. Thanks to the beautiful and talented staff over at gaiwa (gaiwa.co), I am pretty well-informed about what methods have worked best for learners.

(ahem.. if you check out the 'staff' on that site, you might just notice a familiar face teehee ^^).

One thing I would say though, is that if you want to learn Japanese to advanced proficiency you're looking at an average of 3-4 years if you can study immersively (such as living in Japan, doing a full-time course, or working in a largely Japanese environment), and 4-6 years if self studying in your free time outside of Japan. So I'd definitely start sooner rather than later.

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I think as long as you still read/listen to/watch Japanese sources, you'll retain it.

I love exaggerated accents... they're amazing. ^^

I've been told my accent is cute. I was hoping for sexy, but cute will do. If I didn't hate my face so much, I'd upload one of my video journal entries to show you.

[Willow]

Re: Which to use for learning a new language?

I've been told my accent is cute. I was hoping for sexy, but cute will do. If I didn't hate my face so much, I'd upload one of my video journal entries to show you.

That's ok, I'm right there in that anti-camera boat with you. ^^

[Näre]

Re: Which to use for learning a new language?

Accents are awesome. Especially when the person can speak fluently but they still have the accent. (Says the one who always tries to pronounce every single thing correctly.)

For learning Chinese (or at least, for a little help with the notorious characters), I'd suggest http://www.yellowbridge.com/
Doesn't work with an ad blocker but there's a lot of stuff from pronounciaton audio files to stroke orders (and probably a lot more but I'm too lazy to explore the site).