The Rights home school conspiracy

[thalassa]

Re: The Rights home school conspiracy

I dont know about there, but most countries in Europe that allow it make you stick to the curriculum, and they test you regularily. Canada does it that way too. I'd imagine that States would do something similar...

Nope, you can make up your own cirriculum, buy a prepackaged one, ty to go with the school's, or do what is called "unschooling" (basically let your kid run around and do whatever and hope you can intervene with "life lessons" to teach them everything.....because like, who needs algebra in the real world? (I do--seriously, check out my instagram from a few days ago)). I have some issues with unschooling as I've seen it carried out... But anyhow, there are something like 50 sets of laws governing homeschooling (and homeschoolers are a huge political lobby)...I'm only familiar with 2, one of which has almost no regs and here, which has very few.

You have to remeber, this is a country which has no national education standards in practice (while I have problems witht the implementation of the common core, i have no problem with the idea, or even the standards themselves). Heck, we have enough folks that want to scrap public schools all together and throw them overboard that we could give them their own state to run their little social experiments in...

[anunitu]

Re: The Rights home school conspiracy

Even when as it is a lot of schools are not all that good at educating kids(grew up in California schools) mainly the system was about pushing you through to make room for more kids. At first you could be held back if you had trouble with learning,but it changed to pushing you through even if you missed or lacked certain essential base education.

The one thing that holds true is,in a modern tech oriented world,one has to have an education to survive. It would be a positive thing IF company's(Corporations) covered the cost of education because they will need to relay on workers produced from said schools. Also they will need educated consumers to earn enough to buy their products.

Really it is in the best interest of corporations to make sure everyone gets a solid education.

I am including collage in that corporate coverage as well. A H.S. diploma is not enough any more...

[Shahaku]

Re: The Rights home school conspiracy

I may have a bit of a unique view here as we're currently planning to home school nova. In Iowa, the law requires regular testing and that you follow a curriculum. Recently, they partnered with K12 which is an online homeschooling program. It's free in Iowa just like public education. And your child is assigned an actual instructor to help with more difficult problems. They do live chats and that sort of thing.

We also have programs in the area that do half a day once a week with an actual teacher in a classroom to do lessons that are more difficult at home (think dissecting frogs) and I have plans to get nova into some extracurricular activities like gymnastics, bowling league, martial arts, etc.

It's a huge time requirement but I feel it's worth it. Almost every kid in my husband's family has at some point had an ADHD diagnoses from the schools around here. Many off them were put on meds for it and steadily fell behind. Once they got old enough they refused the meds and all but one of them caught up inside of a year. While I can acknowledge that there are real cases of ADHD and meds really help quite a few of those kids it's so over diagnoses here it's ridiculous. And a coupLe of the kids in his family whose parent refused to medicate their kids because they were just acting like kids almost had their children expelled. They really had to work to keep there children in the school district. And they weren't even doing anything really naughty. They couldn't sit quietly for more than half an hour. They wanted to get up and play after an hour and wouldn't sit still. They threw a coupLe tantrums (literally one or two) in kindergarten because they were made to sit still and do their lessons for 90 minutes straight.

We don't want to put our daughter through that. And while wanting the school system to change is wonderful and all that doesn't mean that what we have is acceptable or that I can be okay with my daughter having those experiences.

[LunarHarvest]

Re: The Rights home school conspiracy

I'm accepting of home schooling, in certain cases, so long as certain conditions are met.

• The parent, or otherwise instructor, must have the same credentials as a public school teacher, or at the very least prove their competence to be at an equivalent level.
• Unless otherwise specified there is to be a secular teaching of the individual child(ren). In the cases where a faith-based education will be prescribed, the curriculum must meet state-established standards (subject to inspection by the relevant Ministry for Education, or equivalent) and shall be regulated with the same effect as all faith-based school regulations.
• There must by a valid reason, be it economic or mental health of the child, etcetera, which entails why the child(ren) should not be educated in an educational institution. No permit to home-school shall be granted without such reason, and public/private school attendance shall remain compulsory. Approval shall rest solely at the discretion of the state.
• There may not be an active effort to disassociate or prevent interaction of the child(ren) with the general community of their peers.

I will say that I generally am in opposition to the usage of home schooling. I can understand the usage of such a method of education in the case of a mental condition on the part of the child(ren), or for the financial purposes of the family, or a lack of a proper educational institutional facility in the general area, etcetera, but I am firmly against its usage as a matter of preference or indoctrination by parents.

[SleepingCompass]

Re: The Rights home school conspiracy

I think there should be some testing done to make sure that the kid is learning the same material as they would if they were in regular school, but I do think it should be an option for parents to have, especially for younger aged kids. In some places, the public school system just isn't very good, especially with the overcrowding and underfunding problems.

I knew a couple of people in college who had been home schooled and they got the best grades out of all of my friends.

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: The Rights home school conspiracy

It's like adoption - if you give birth to a child, you can live in a tent in the woods and no one will bother you unless something outlandish happens. Adopt and you have to prove income, have a seperate bedroom for the child, etc. Educate your own at home that the world is flat? No problem. Teach other kids in public school & you need a degree & to follow the rules.

I was homeschooled before kindergarten - I was reading, writing, naming the capitols of foreign countries, etc. I basically could have skipped a few grades, but didn't.

[kalynraye]

Re: The Rights home school conspiracy

I don't have any kids of my own so I'm not sure how much my opinion matters but I have been around a few home schooled people. What I remember most about them was they were socially awkward, and their education seemed to be seriously lacking. I had drivers ed with a girl who was home schooled and her hand writing was that of a 2nd grader her spelling just as bad. My best friend also stopped attending school her 8th grade year and never finished. I do believe she eventually got her g.e.d. but only because she couldn't get a job after 18 without one.

I don't have a problem with people home schooling their kids. Texas education system sucks! But when they aren't even learning the basics like reading and writing I take issue. Yes some skills you learn in the real world but there are some things you need to be taught. So with that I do think there needs to be regulations on home schooling. They do need to be tested regularly to make sure they are where they need to be. They also need to be socialized, and a lot! The world is not a nice place and you can only learn how to handle certain situations if you've been around them.

That being said I think we need to up our school systems and not be so worried about standardized testing. My step-mom spends over half of her year getting her kids ready for testing. They aren't learning anything during that time besides how to bubble and memorizing correct answers to tests. We owe it to them to prepare them as much as possible for whats out there. A good solid education is a start.

[thalassa]

Re: The Rights home school conspiracy

Because we seriously considered homeschooling (the kids were in a pre-k/k co-op, I was a member of HSLDA, heck...I went to conferences and I still havecurricula (which has come in handy for summer work and extra practice when they have trouble with something)), I know a number of homeschooling kids and families. Some of them are great and some of them suck. I know kids that have gone to college at 15 and 16, had a masters degree by 20...and kids that could barely read at 15 and 16. I've met kids who were raging brats and kids who were scrupulously polite, kids that were uncaring and unfeeling shitheads and kids that were incredibly compassionate and caring....in sort, the same range you see in schools (public or private). What I've never met was a child that was socially adept--schools, all those children are together on a daily basis learning to get along and learning to handle them when they aren't. It doesn't matter how many play groups or co-op classes, home-schooled kids just don't seem to learn to read people and to handle them effectively...there's an incredible naivete there (a few of them can fake it though and catch up fast) (the 20 year old with a masters in psychology wanted to be a counselor so she could her patients to Jesus, because obviously they wouldn't have issues if they had Jesus). And the education is only as improved as the parent make it, which is a full time, labor intensive, soul-sucking job for the parent that almost no one in the home schooling community is ever honest about.

[DanieMarie]

Re: The Rights home school conspiracy

What really hits home for me is that when people give up on public school systems, other kids suffer. Rich people can afford private schools. Families generally have to be well enough off to afford living on a single income in order to home school, or at least be able to afford one parent working part time. Generally, it's not an option open to low-income and single parent homes. When people drop out of public school systems, especially when those people are people who really care about education, the quality slides further, and the kids who are stuck in the system fail. It breeds inequality.

I can understand why parents would be hesitant to send their kids into a slipping school system, really, I do. But I feel that their efforts would be better spent getting involved in the school. Join PAC. Get to know teachers and principals. Spend time tutoring your kids. And above all else, voice your opinions to the local school board, the state education trustee (or whatever you call it...in Canada it's the Minister of Education).

I feel really strongly about this issue, because I have several teachers in my family and social circle. I've seen what public schools can be, and I know how much teachers care. I -believe- in public schools, and think that public school systems are among the most important social innovations of the 20th century. Without them, there is absolutely no way we'd be where we are today.

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: The Rights home school conspiracy

I agree with DanieMarie about getting involved. The public school system I was in from 6th grade through high school was really quite good. We had some outstanding teachers. But things are not what they were. Now, all the money goes into admin salaries and sports and free breakfasts. Where I went to school, there are more school districts than there are towns. It's crazy. And the property taxes that pay for all of it are crazy, too. I think the school system has gone the way of all else - benefits no longer go to the employees (students) but to the shareholders (admins/politicians). Teachers are no longer allowed to be creative, just like in many other jobs we're told to leave our brains at home. This fall, we voted here on an amendment that would effectively end teacher tenure, etc., (just like other jobs no longer have security or pensions). It's become corporatized, and with that comes greed & corruption.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: The Rights home school conspiracy

People get what they are willing to pay for.

When it comes to "free education," people imagine that it is a "right" enshrined in the constitution (it's not).

And yeah, creativity... Is that on the gooberment mandated test?

No?

Then I can't teach it. Sorry - no time. Gotta go shove some grammar down some kid's throats.

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: The Rights home school conspiracy

I meant the teachers being creative, not teaching kids to be. I had an English teacher in high school who was so memorable, there are many ex-students of his spanning several decades who regularly talk about him on facebook and still send him Christmas cards. Home schooling can't ever produce results like that. Which brings up another facet - the internet reconnection of classmates who otherwise would never have done so. The home schooled don't have classmates.

I now live where taxes are much lower. It's the main reason I left, because I'm not willing to pay a ridiculous amount. I don't think people in general mind paying taxes to support the community but when those taxes get to where they can't afford to stay in their paid-off homes, NO. Cost of living here is completely different. Teachers don't have to have 2nd jobs in the summer or p/t jobs during the school year. They make enough to have homes, etc., with the summers off.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: The Rights home school conspiracy

Teachers don't have to have 2nd jobs in the summer or p/t jobs during the school year. They make enough to have homes, etc., with the summers off.

Gee.

That must be nice.

[DanieMarie]

Re: The Rights home school conspiracy

I think a lot of the problem (at least in British Columbia, which is mostly what I have to go by) is that voters LOVE standardization. They want measures of teacher performance, and a lot of voters think that's the way to get it. They don't know how much it actually stands in the way of actual education, so they keep pushing it.

I think it's really important to educate the public about a number of things, including:
-How much it is nearly impossible to evaluate individual teacher performance. Teachers are not sales managers. You cannot really match up their performance with a set of numbers.
-Alternate ways of assessing a school system's success, such as graduation rate, the number of students who go into university, college, or apprenticeships, etc. It's also important to stress the fact that education is a process and it is really hard to evaluate schools individually. Sometimes kids struggle in elementary school, but find their way in high school. Sometimes they do very well in elementary school, but then their parents get a divorce and their performance plummets in middle school. Etc.
-Stress how much things like home life, mental health, and such can affect student performance. Performance does not always come down to the school. That's why it is so difficult to compare two different schools in neighbourhoods with different socioeconomic levels.
-You can't measure things like creativity and critical thinking that easily. The latter is one of the most important skills you can get out of school, aside from how to read and do basic math.
-Stress how important things like music, art, and languages are. These things get dropped too quickly and they really affect the quality of education. I can't stress this enough. Sports is also incredibly important (yes, sports), but I think most schools tend to keep a lot of focus on sports.

Anyway, people need to know, but they also need to be educated. For most people, the only contact they have with the public school system is as a student and as a parent, which doesn't really give you a good idea of how education actually works.

- - - Updated - - -

Teachers don't have to have 2nd jobs in the summer or p/t jobs during the school year. They make enough to have homes, etc., with the summers off.

This is actually how things are in most of the developed world...

[nbdy]

Re: The Rights home school conspiracy

So many thoughts reading this topic. The infatuation with credentials is to some extent a 20th century phenomenon, as if getting a diploma or degree confers intelligence or competence. How, then, to explain such anomalies as Franklin, Faraday, Lincoln, Assange, and many other notables who had either spotty or no formal education? The question is what it means to be well educated, and then the best means for achieving that for each child. The idea that children can be loaded onto belt like parts on an assembly line and will all arrive at the other end after the prescribed process has been followed as well-educated, well-adjusted adults is ridiculous. School systems have had to acknowledge this by modifying the factory model with IEPs (Individualized Education Programs). Last year 30 of the 36 students in my son's science class had IEPs. With one teacher and one assistant teaching several blocks implementation was absent or lacking. I kept thinking that if we just did away with all of the experts and meetings and paperwork and SOL tests there could have been more teachers and more assistants making much smaller classes that would not need to be run like factories, and then who needs an IEP?

Anyway, homeschooling. I saw a good bit of stuff on this thread that does not jibe with my own observations of the homeschooling community over the years. Of course, living outside of DC may make a difference since there are so many opportunities around here. There are a few homeschoolers who are in it to limit their children's exposure to information and worldly things, but the great bulk of homeschoolers I have known are doing their best to maximize their children's social and intellectual prospects.

All of our children have homeschooled at one point or another. The oldest went back to public school in the 10th grade and graduated with honors, so I guess he wasn't intellectually damaged along the way. Socially awkward? Absolutely, but being high functioning autistic there is no amount of classroom time that would change it. He will be a quirky guy for all his life most likely, but he embraced who he is on his own terms which has been very empowering for him. I wonder what the outcome would have been if we had forced him to remain in an environment where he was being bullied by fellow students and told that "maybe this is too hard for you" by teachers?

As for the anecdotal "I met a homeschooler who wrote like a 2nd grader" bit -- how do you know s/he would write any better if in public school? There is a huge special needs homeschooling population because the public schools are unable or unwilling to meet their needs and the parents just get tired of endless meetings and legal actions. No Child has accelerated the push of these student out of the schools because high SOL scores requires the preponderance of only a certain type of student --- one who is able to sit for hours filling in little bubbles without losing it.

For what it's worth.