How are you raising your children religiously?

[Medusa]

Re: How are you raising your children religiously?

I am an atheist. But I live in a world which is predominantly theist in nature. It behooves me to learn about religion if I want to have a happy life in this world.

[DanieMarie]

Re: How are you raising your children religiously?

The confirmation program at the church I attended as a kid actually included a short (middle school level) course on world religions and the history of religion (not sure if they still do this, but considering their adult RE classes did, it would suprised me if they stopped). As part of that section of the program (which is a about a month of a 10-month long program that met twice weekly), we attended services for a number of religions (Catholic, Jewish, Bahai, and Hindu) and had guest speakers and clergy (an imam--we went to the mosque for this, a Buddhist nun, and a couple of more conservative Christian denominations). But then again, the UCC is a very liberal and progressive denomination in general, and our congregation in particular, extra-so...I doubt you'd find this in most Chrisitan denominations.

I think that religion (whether you like it or not) is functionally a huge part of human society and culture. While I think you can teach morality from any cultural perspective (which includes religion) or combination of perspectives (and that that morality can be functionally the same), part of the reason I identify as Pagan is because of my morality (and part of the reason for my morality is because I am Pagan). Even if I had the same morals with a different religion (whether that be a religious belief with or without deities), the reason for them and the level of motivation, and the choices I decide to make as a result of them wouldn't necessairly be the same.

If I teach my children my morality in any sort of thoughtful way, I'm explaining the how and why of why I believe something to be right...I'm automatically sharing my religion with them. If my expectation of behavior is based on this morality, I'm automatically raising them with my religious beliefs--regardless of any ritual or deity or whatever that I may or may not bring them along for. If you *are* ________ (and not just as lip-service) your kids are being raised as __________, because it informs everything you do...the idea that you wouldn't pass that on to your child...well then, why be ________ in the first place? Why be something that's not good enough for fo you to teach your kids about?

For example...I pick up trash on the beach as an active devotion to Psamathe (whom Chickadee and Sharkbait call Blue Girl, and yes, they help pick up trash too, because that's how I "force" religion on my kids) on a regular (weather willing) basis. My religion is based upon my bioregion--quite literally, I worship the ground I walk on, the waters I swim in, and everything in between. My gods are the features of my ecosystem, personified. Littering (among other things) is human conceit--its hubris (the ancient Greek religious kind). My motivation for picking up trash and for not throwing things on the ground when a trash can/recycle bin isn't handy and for not using disposable plastics is quite different from why someone that environmentally aware, but a differint religious outlook would be. And, for that same reason (ecological health=the literal well-being of the gods), I support things like hunting and local sustainable livestock production.

As a pragmatist, I fully accept that the end result of my actions are no different than someone who just loves sea creatures or someone that doesn't like the aesthetics of a trashed beach. But the lesson my kids learn is that all of the world is alive in some (non-biological) way, that what we do a hundred miles off shore or a thousand upstream matters, and it matters not just on the level of water chemistry and food chain and animal health, it also matters in ways that aren't tangible--aesthetically, emotionally, and even spiturally.

Plus, its a good work out.

I get what you mean. I guess that personally, my morals tend to stem from a secular place. I didn't really "find" paganism until I was 25. I guess to an extent, I always believed that there was something divine in the natural world and that divinity was in everything (I'm a pantheist...but I didn't figure that one out until even later). So anyway, I developed my sense of morals from my secular upbringing. I put a lot of importance in nature, but I don't really know if it's because I'm a pagan or because I just love nature. It's sort of a "which came first" sort of question. Do I love nature because I'm pagan, or am I pagan because I love nature?

My boyfriend is the same way, but probably even moreso, because he grew up totally atheist, in a predominantly atheist culture.

Because Medusa brought up living in a predominantly theist world, I guess that might play a role too. I suppose it would depend on whether we actually end up living in Berlin when we have kids or moving, but if we are here, Berlin (and most of former East Germany) are predominantly atheist and very secular. Like, Berlin got a referendum a few years ago to offer a religion class in school (not comparative religions....German religion class is basically Christian religious study). People here overwhelmingly voted "no." I went to a church service once in Brandenburg and there were seriously like 15-20 people there. That was it. A lot of Germany is still pretty Catholic, but the parts that aren't REALLY aren't. I know I didn't grow up here like H did, but I've been here since I was 21, which means that Berlin is sort of how I view the world. I think learning about different religions is important, but like I said, I think that teaching kids *about* religion and raising them to participate in one are two very different things.

It's not like I'll hide my beliefs from them. It's just that I don't really feel like having them participate. I'm solitary for a reason...anything spiritual I do is "me" time, and anyone else there feels like a huge intrusion. I can barely even manage when my boyfriend is home. I need quiet, solitude, and space to practice.

[Medusa]

Re: How are you raising your children religiously?

If you think kids might be an intrusion in your spirituality...I'd probably hold off on having any. Not trying to be snide. But well...I don't have kids because I don't want to have to get up or do things I don't want to do. So I just say this with observation and not judgement.

[anunitu]

Re: How are you raising your children religiously?

The truth is,kids are a time sink..For many,it is worth the time...that was me...loved being a parent...for others,better with no kids,it really is a job you have to love for it to turn out well.

[DanieMarie]

Re: How are you raising your children religiously?

If you think kids might be an intrusion in your spirituality...I'd probably hold off on having any. Not trying to be snide. But well...I don't have kids because I don't want to have to get up or do things I don't want to do. So I just say this with observation and not judgement.

I think that everyone is sort of misunderstanding what I'm saying, though. For me, religion doesn't play as big a role in my life as maybe others here. Because I don't believe in the concept of deity as a conscious, active force, I don't pray or do rituals involving deities. I do occasionally do energy work and spells, but they don't really play a huge role in my life. And I don't really see what's wrong with raising kids in a secular environment. It's not like we won't teach them anything...we'll teach them ABOUT religions and we'll definitely teach them morals and values. It's just that neither of us thinks that religion is necessary for morals and values and neither of us really draws our morals and values from any religious place (because neither of us really grew up in a religious environment).

I understand that things change in big ways when kids come into the picture, and I'm prepared for that. Probably not totally prepared...if there's anything I've learned in my 30-odd years on this planet, it's that no one really knows anything and you're never ready for big life changes, even if you think you are. Still, I know that things change. I'll probably spend a lot less of my time sewing, playing guitar, or reading tarot cards, and I'm ok with that. It may very well be that my spirituality will take a back seat when our kids are younger, just like my hobbies and music will probably take a back seat. I'm fine with that.

[Luna]

Re: How are you raising your children religiously?

I teach my child about what I belive and why we celebrate the different sabbats and so on. My husband to be is not sharing my beleif, however he thinks it is important that any children we have get to know about my path and religion, and also that my mom and grandmother shared some of the same path as me. My man doesn`t beleive in any gods, still he has experience and belive is more on earth than meets the eye, and he belive that there are living beings on other planets. He respects my path and I respect his, and my son gets to know that there is also other religion and paths people follow. I think that it is very important for children to get knowledge about religion, just as music, food and so on. We both agree that it is important for him to understand differnet religion, so he can choose when he grows older which path and direction is right for him. And I agree with Thalassa

[nbdy]

Re: How are you raising your children religiously?

Danae, No one is ever really prepared for kids, so don't sweat that too much. And if religiosity isn't your bag, there is no need to pretend for your kids. Here in the US there is a church alternative called the Ethical Society, "a welcoming home for humanists," that offers deity-free community and social responsibility. Whether based in a religion or not, the lesson is more about giving kids the tools to be meaningful members of society, of something larger than self. It sounds as if your guy is proof that this works out just fine.

[DanieMarie]

Re: How are you raising your children religiously?

Danae, No one is ever really prepared for kids, so don't sweat that too much. And if religiosity isn't your bag, there is no need to pretend for your kids. Here in the US there is a church alternative called the Ethical Society, "a welcoming home for humanists," that offers deity-free community and social responsibility. Whether based in a religion or not, the lesson is more about giving kids the tools to be meaningful members of society, of something larger than self. It sounds as if your guy is proof that this works out just fine.

Thanks

And yea, I know that no one is really prepared....it's just something I'm thinking about a lot lately. I'm 30, so my biological clock is sort of going insane. I never wanted kids in my 20s, but now it's just like a switch flipped. We're not in a rush or anything, but we're also aware that we should probably start our family sometime in the next decade. So yeah...kids are something that I think about quite a bit.