I don't want my baby he has down syndrome

[kalynraye]

Re: I don't want my baby he has down syndrome

This sentiment is sort of new actually. Hawkfeathers is right here, thee isn't a ton of data or information about older people with Down's for a reason, they didn't used to live very long, people pretty much let them die if there was anything wrong with them besides the basics of Down's. Institutionalization wasn't pleasant or really helpful for people. Frankly thinking that they have to deal with it is a little bit spoiled. If you come from a place where getting food from day to day is difficult, having a regular kid is likely expected of you, having a special needs kid could kill you. It could get you expelled from the community. There is obviously stigma there, now you are stuck with it. There is a reason that the father has to return to New Zealand for support, he can't nessecarily raise a special needs child where he is living, his wife had no problem not keeping the child after she carried it for 9 months and she was willing to leave her husband because he wanted to keep it... Think of the mental attitude that has to go along with being willing to make that decision. If this is normal precise in an Argentinian hospital, imagine how many times people had to just be used to giving up their babies for adoption in order for this story to be the odd one out.
I don't like it, I have a serious problem with it, but I get why it's a thing. My social norm isn't nessecarily going to be someone else's...

This is all very true, it is different in other countries than ours with how they handle there special needs children and adults. We are only recently coming into a time when they are not hidden away or stuck into an institution. Now that being said I still don't like it, and maybe I need to do a little research and see about their health care systems, but I know there are tests that can be done to see if the fetus has any disabilities, and if so then terminate it if you don't want it. But I don't know about their health care system and I don't know how they are on abortion.

[Medusa]

Re: I don't want my baby he has down syndrome

It's a predominantly Catholic country. Also from wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Argentina

[Maria de Luna]

Re: I don't want my baby he has down syndrome

This is all very true, it is different in other countries than ours with how they handle there special needs children and adults. We are only recently coming into a time when they are not hidden away or stuck into an institution. Now that being said I still don't like it, and maybe I need to do a little research and see about their health care systems, but I know there are tests that can be done to see if the fetus has any disabilities, and if so then terminate it if you don't want it. But I don't know about their health care system and I don't know how they are on abortion.

the tests in the us are not usually covered by insurance, and are actually usually a few grand to have done. I couldn't afford it, And I'm not exactly destitute....

[DanieMarie]

Re: I don't want my baby he has down syndrome

I wonder what kind of govt help there is for parents with children of special needs in Argentina. That's important to know to be honest.

I think that's really important to know as well.

We can all sit here and judge, but if there's little or no support available, it's understandable. I could raise a special needs child here. It wouldn't be easy, but I could do it. But that's because here, we have a lot of support for that kind of thing. Parental support is pretty good here in general, even if you do not have a special needs child.

But I don't know if I could do it somewhere that had a policy along the lines of "Oh, your child is special needs? Good luck with that!"

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Unfortunately I don't care how much government help you get if you have a child with special needs. If you can't afford a child don't have one. They are expensive regardless if they are special needs or not.

If that's the way things actually worked, the birth rate would plummet. That's why government support is so, so important. I'm lucky enough to have citizenship to somewhere that has a family policy that falls in line with my own values (note: I am dual and I feel my birth country is pretty lacking when it comes to support for families, so there is -some- choice there). But not everyone is lucky enough to be born somewhere or be able to legally move somewhere with sufficient support. It's easy enough to say "if you can't afford it, don't do it," but that doesn't really solve the actual issue at hand. That's why good policy is so important.

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Side note its Armenia. Eastern Europe.

Armenia has a ridiculously low standard of living compared to the rest of Europe. Heck, it has a low standard of living compared to the rest of Eastern Europe. The difference between say, Germany, and there is like night and day. It's also not in the EU, which means that any EU policies on rights for disabled people do not apply. Access to health care is not quite as high as it is in the rest of Europe. There have been reforms, but it's still shocking what happens there compared to here. I looked it up, and although abortion is legal there, it is risky. Up until 2000, death rates from abortion were 10-20%. Now, it's lower and around 5%. That's a definite improvement, but that's still a pretty high death rate for something like that. It means that out of every 100 women who get an abortion, 5 DIE. That's the reality of medical care in Armenia.

Poverty is very, very high there. As far as I know, social support is very low. Social support and health care systems collapsed when the Soviet Union collapsed and unlike many other Eastern European countries, Armenia has been slower going to build them back up again. And because it is not part of any existing EU border agreements, you can't just up and leave for another European country.

Edit: just to give you an idea of the state of access to health care there, read this article published by the WHO: http://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/87/7/09-010709/en/

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: I don't want my baby he has down syndrome

Unfortunately I don't care how much government help you get if you have a child with special needs. If you can't afford a child don't have one. They are expensive regardless if they are special needs or not.

I couldn't 'afford' any of our children and I had a shedload of them. But you know what? The real expense isn't counted in money, it's counted in love. And I loved - and still love - them all. Some are good and kind, some are little buggers, a couple have broken my heart. But I wouldn't change a thing.

[kalynraye]

Re: I don't want my baby he has down syndrome

It's not Argentina it's Armenia

[Azvanna]

Re: I don't want my baby he has down syndrome

Kalynraye, I'd really like to share with you this blog written by a guy I know who has a child with Downs. This first entry I read from him brought me to my knees. http://perfectbydesignx2.com/2014/05...o-why-in-eden/ It details his response when his daughter was diagnosed.

There are other pages in the blog that are short biographies of individuals with Downs Syndrome in a series called 'Everyday Champions' for Downs Syndrome awareness month. I can't read them without crying!

Much of what is written is through the lense of his faith which is to be expected as he is a pastor. The underpinning belief is of the intrinsic worth of human life.

Having worked with people with a disability and their families, I'm well aware that having a child with a disability or even acquiring a disability is something that can happen to any one of us at any time for reasons outside our control. What matters most is our daily response. And it's not just the response of the parents that matters, the whole community needs to pitch in. Without the support of the community, disability has the potential to bring utter destruction onto an individual and their families. I have noticed that children and families that have a strong support network around them suffer less. In the best cases, the child with the disability suffers the least anguish.

When I worked in a special ed. school, I was sometimes rostered on Morning Tea duty with children with multiple and profound disabilities. I'd hear these children crying or not wanting to eat and one in particular who was labelled 'difficult to work with' used to grate on me a bit. This sounds totally heartless, but I found it challenging to work with these students as I just did not have the patience. Then I was asked to do a month or so of relief work in their classrooms. I can't say how long it took me, but I remember clearly connecting with these children person to person. The little boy labelled 'difficult to work with' looked at me smiling and giggling and then reached out and touched me on the arm. I had to really fight to hold back tears. It was a really special moment for me and one I'll treasure forever because I learned that under the surface, there's a little person in there who wants to connect. What else could I do but validate that!

I used to have a humble manner towards just about everyone because I believed they were better than me. Since working in special ed., I still treat people like that, but more because I believe in their worth just as they are with no striving, not because I believe they are more accomplished than I am. I also believe more solidly in my own intrinsic worth.

Anyway, all this to say that people with a disability have the potential to enrich their communities in surprising ways. A disability in no way diminishes the worth of a person.

[habbalah]

Re: I don't want my baby he has down syndrome

Unfortunately I don't care how much government help you get if you have a child with special needs. If you can't afford a child don't have one. They are expensive regardless if they are special needs or not.

I find this an unfair statement. Even if you were financially secure and had everything set up, things go wrong. Jobs get lost. Children have medical bills that pile up. One of the parents could pass away or have medical issues themselves. At that point, what is your option? Do you hope your family can help you, if you even have one? Sell your kid? If you have an unplanned child, should you just immediately terminate the pregnancy because you didn't financially secure yourself beforehand?

Special needs kids need far more than a non-special needs kids does, and special needs is such a broad term that there's no possible way to plan for "well, if we're going to have a kid and they end up becoming special needs, we need x more dollars". And in this case, the couple clearly were planning to have kids, but the mother decided that she didn't want the child once he was born. It's doesn't sound like it was an issue of money at all, but her simply not wanting to have a special needs child.

[kalynraye]

Re: I don't want my baby he has down syndrome

I will admit I can be very closed minded when it comes to stuff like this. I am an avid supporter of those with down syndrome and I will shut out any excuse with the exception of rape to keeping a child with a dysability. I want to adopt a child with downs. I am pretty sure I am an odd case but I accept that. it hurts me in ways I can't explain when I see people willing to walk away from a child because of a disability.

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Kalynraye, I'd really like to share with you this blog written by a guy I know who has a child with Downs. This first entry I read from him brought me to my knees. http://perfectbydesignx2.com/2014/05...o-why-in-eden/ It details his response when his daughter was diagnosed.

There are other pages in the blog that are short biographies of individuals with Downs Syndrome in a series called 'Everyday Champions' for Downs Syndrome awareness month. I can't read them without crying!

Much of what is written is through the lense of his faith which is to be expected as he is a pastor. The underpinning belief is of the intrinsic worth of human life.

Having worked with people with a disability and their families, I'm well aware that having a child with a disability or even acquiring a disability is something that can happen to any one of us at any time for reasons outside our control. What matters most is our daily response. And it's not just the response of the parents that matters, the whole community needs to pitch in. Without the support of the community, disability has the potential to bring utter destruction onto an individual and their families. I have noticed that children and families that have a strong support network around them suffer less. In the best cases, the child with the disability suffers the least anguish.

When I worked in a special ed. school, I was sometimes rostered on Morning Tea duty with children with multiple and profound disabilities. I'd hear these children crying or not wanting to eat and one in particular who was labelled 'difficult to work with' used to grate on me a bit. This sounds totally heartless, but I found it challenging to work with these students as I just did not have the patience. Then I was asked to do a month or so of relief work in their classrooms. I can't say how long it took me, but I remember clearly connecting with these children person to person. The little boy labelled 'difficult to work with' looked at me smiling and giggling and then reached out and touched me on the arm. I had to really fight to hold back tears. It was a really special moment for me and one I'll treasure forever because I learned that under the surface, there's a little person in there who wants to connect. What else could I do but validate that!

I used to have a humble manner towards just about everyone because I believed they were better than me. Since working in special ed., I still treat people like that, but more because I believe in their worth just as they are with no striving, not because I believe they are more accomplished than I am. I also believe more solidly in my own intrinsic worth.

Anyway, all this to say that people with a disability have the potential to enrich their communities in surprising ways. A disability in no way diminishes the worth of a person.

Thank you for this it us beautiful

[Rae'ya]

Re: I don't want my baby he has down syndrome

I will admit I can be very closed minded when it comes to stuff like this. I am an avid supporter of those with down syndrome and I will shut out any excuse with the exception of rape to keeping a child with a dysability. I want to adopt a child with downs. I am pretty sure I am an odd case but I accept that. it hurts me in ways I can't explain when I see people willing to walk away from a child because of a disability.

It might help to think of it this way...

Would you rather than a child with Down Syndrome remain with a family who can't provide the support, love and care that it needs to thrive and who may end up resenting that child because of it, or would you rather they have the opportunity to be adopted by a family who not only can provide that support, love and care, but who want to?

You may be able to (theoretically) force or bully someone into keeping a child with a disability, but you can't force them to love them, to nurture them or to be patient with them.

[Medusa]

Re: I don't want my baby he has down syndrome

I am an avid supporter of those with down syndrome and I will shut out any excuse with the exception of rape to keeping a child with a dysability.

I want to be direct here. So I'm taking off the gloves. I don't need you to give me which reasons are acceptable to you that pertain to my body.

[kalynraye]

Re: I don't want my baby he has down syndrome

I want to be direct here. So I'm taking off the gloves. I don't need you to give me which reasons are acceptable to you that pertain to my body.

No your body is completely your body and what you do with it is your choice. I will not deny that. Like I said I am pro choice 110%. But I still support those with downs.

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I think if a country is so willing to let you give a child away because it has a defect then they should test the fetus for problems. Its probably a heck of a lot cheaper then taking the off chance that it will be adopted by someone.

Your right you can't force a parent to love a child but If you test the fetus and find out it has problems and dont want it then terminate it. That's once less child in an orphanage that the government and tax payers are paying for. That's one less child that's growing up without parents.

[DanieMarie]

Re: I don't want my baby he has down syndrome

It's not Argentina it's Armenia

The standard of living and access to social support is actually LOWER in Armenia than it is in Argentina...

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No your body is completely your body and what you do with it is your choice. I will not deny that. Like I said I am pro choice 110%. But I still support those with downs.

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I think if a country is so willing to let you give a child away because it has a defect then they should test the fetus for problems. Its probably a heck of a lot cheaper then taking the off chance that it will be adopted by someone.

Your right you can't force a parent to love a child but If you test the fetus and find out it has problems and dont want it then terminate it. That's once less child in an orphanage that the government and tax payers are paying for. That's one less child that's growing up without parents.

I agree with you in theory, but a lot of other countries have a LOT of issues to take care of before they can tackle something like that. In Armenia (since this story deals with that country), there are huge inequalities in access to health care, since the system is mostly privatized and access to those private services varies. Some services are not even available in some areas, even if the population does have coverage. On top of that, even in areas with more access to health care, facilities are still struggling to provide the standards of health care that are pretty "normal" for us in the highly developed world. As I stated before, in Armenia, 5% of women still die from abortions.

It's easy to sit here from our position and say that the government MUST provide testing, but that's an incredibly privileged point of view. The reality is that Armenia and similar countries have a lot more issues to deal with in their medical systems before they can tackle that one.

Ultimately, this family is lucky. Since the father comes from New Zealand and is prepared to raise the child, he can just move back there and take advantage of all that New Zealand has to offer (which is a hell of a lot better than what Armenia has to offer). It sucks that the mother doesn't want to go with them and help raise the child she gave birth to, but I'm guessing she grew up in Armenia and is colored by the level of social support and economic realities there.

[Medusa]

Re: I don't want my baby he has down syndrome

I agree. It's completely sad. And completely understandable.

[Ula]

Re: I don't want my baby he has down syndrome

Special needs can range from a physical illness to something like autism. One of my son's classmates has two doctors as parents. They make a lot more than we do and still struggle. One parent had to quit working because day care for medium to severe autism is almost nil. We had to do the same but my husband only worked part time and we adjusted to the change fairly easy. They also had twins with the condition so the expense was double. We didn't qualify for any programs and because they had three kids they did.Still they struggle. I would imagine having a child with cerebral palsy would be the same. You honestly can't know unless you're a millionaire that you will have the money for kids. And having good insurance didn't help at first. Our state allowed insurance to refuse to pay for anything autism related until the law passed two years ago.