What Purpose do Humans Serve In our Ecosystem

[anunitu]

Re: What Purpose do Humans Serve In our Ecosystem

There is I think something inside us all that seems to push us all to destruction. I do not have a name for it,but I see it reflected over and over in the news of the day.

It has been written about for hundreds of years,perhaps thousands of years in one form or another. The human death wish,we tend to always think the end is right around the corner when some star is to bright,or to dull,or a bird sings off key...or we feel sad,or we feel too much,and cry...and it is the truth that people do die,no one gets out alive ya know...

I am thinking we are all waiting for that other shoe to drop....

[B. de Corbin]

Re: What Purpose do Humans Serve In our Ecosystem

There is I think something inside us all that seems to push us all to destruction. I do not have a name for it,but I see it reflected over and over in the news of the day.

It has been written about for hundreds of years,perhaps thousands of years in one form or another. The human death wish,we tend to always think the end is right around the corner when some star is to bright,or to dull,or a bird sings off key...or we feel sad,or we feel too much,and cry...and it is the truth that people do die,no one gets out alive ya know...

Freud said all mental energy comes from the conflict between Eros and Thanatos - the urge to live, love and reproduce, and the urge to return to the mineral state (i.e.: croak).

It's more philosophy than science, but sex & death are what nature is all about...

[Norse_Angel]

Re: What Purpose do Humans Serve In our Ecosystem

There is I think something inside us all that seems to push us all to destruction. I do not have a name for it,but I see it reflected over and over in the news of the day.

It has been written about for hundreds of years,perhaps thousands of years in one form or another. The human death wish,we tend to always think the end is right around the corner when some star is to bright,or to dull,or a bird sings off key...or we feel sad,or we feel too much,and cry...and it is the truth that people do die,no one gets out alive ya know...

I am thinking we are all waiting for that other shoe to drop....

As I said on the Original Post, I call it Self Destructive Evolution.

[gelman66]

Re: What Purpose do Humans Serve In our Ecosystem

Awareness is what makes humans different from other animals. We are aware of the things we do and choose to perform certain actions or not perform them. In Christian terms, knowledge of good and evil came when we ate from the fruit from the tree of knowledge.

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: What Purpose do Humans Serve In our Ecosystem

Every rose needs a thorn.

[Medusa]

Re: What Purpose do Humans Serve In our Ecosystem

Every rose needs a thorn.

Hair band fan I presume?

[thalassa]

Re: What Purpose do Humans Serve In our Ecosystem

Humans don't have a purpose.

No species has a purpose.

Evolution isn't directional or progressive.

The niche of any species is determined by the ecosystem.

And ultimately, the interplay between genes and ecosystem is the final arbiter of who goes extinct and who does not.

Right now, the creative big brain and dexterous opposable thumbs let the two legged walking monkey wring the ecosystems of the Earth dry...but eventually, if we don't wise up, She will have her vengeance.

Not because of purpose (or lack of it), not because of personality or agency (of the Earth), but simple ecology.




Whether life exists or not, Oikos goes on until Sol Invictus is conquered, exploding into the vast recesses of space.

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: What Purpose do Humans Serve In our Ecosystem

Hair band fan I presume?

Haha! Yeah, but that's not what I was thinking. At least, not consciously!

[MaskedOne]

Re: What Purpose do Humans Serve In our Ecosystem

Well, here you are Anunitu, I'll start a thread on the topic.
As discussed in a different thread, our ecosystem is self maintaining. Everything holds a purpose for another. The Circle of Life, *Holds MaskedOne over a cliff*

Since you went and summoned me. Humans provide pizza. I eat any other Horror that looks cross-eyed at the planet. Every other species on the planet tries to figure out how to convince you that pizza production doesn't have to be quite so destructive. Gaia contemplates the application of volcanic eruptions in key locations to illustrate her irritation but being a moderately benevolent power, has decided to delay this avenue till later.

[Norse_Angel]

Re: What Purpose do Humans Serve In our Ecosystem

Humans don't have a purpose.

No species has a purpose.

Evolution isn't directional or progressive.

The niche of any species is determined by the ecosystem.

And ultimately, the interplay between genes and ecosystem is the final arbiter of who goes extinct and who does not.

Right now, the creative big brain and dexterous opposable thumbs let the two legged walking monkey wring the ecosystems of the Earth dry...but eventually, if we don't wise up, She will have her vengeance.

Not because of purpose (or lack of it), not because of personality or agency (of the Earth), but simple ecology.




Whether life exists or not, Oikos goes on until Sol Invictus is conquered, exploding into the vast recesses of space.

Food chain wise, every organism holds a purpose. We just seem to be destroying everything other living creatures need to survive. IE, deforestation, pollution of the oceans, biproducts of fossil fuels we spread into the air, pesticides we spray on our plants, etc etc.
The spider will eat the fly, the frog will eat the spider, the owl will eat the frog, the hawk will eat the owl, the wolf will eat the hawk, the bear will eat the wolf, but we will always hunt the bear, not for food, but for prize and decoration.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: What Purpose do Humans Serve In our Ecosystem

What eats tapeworms?

[Jembru]

Re: What Purpose do Humans Serve In our Ecosystem

What eats tapeworms?

Bacteria.. everything dies eventually, and they'll be waiting!

[Sean R. R.]

Re: What Purpose do Humans Serve In our Ecosystem

So this sounds like backward rationalization.

Pee on carpet.
Mom gets mad
Mom gets new carpet
See mom, I helped you get a new carpet.
Lol. No.

Can you elaborate a bit? I have trouble applying your example to my statement.

[thalassa]

Re: What Purpose do Humans Serve In our Ecosystem

Food chain wise, every organism holds a purpose. We just seem to be destroying everything other living creatures need to survive. IE, deforestation, pollution of the oceans, biproducts of fossil fuels we spread into the air, pesticides we spray on our plants, etc etc.
The spider will eat the fly, the frog will eat the spider, the owl will eat the frog, the hawk will eat the owl, the wolf will eat the hawk, the bear will eat the wolf, but we will always hunt the bear, not for food, but for prize and decoration.

Actually, it doesn't. The spider can eat the bee, mosquito, or other insect. The frog can eat the bloodworm, water strider, etc. The owl can eat a mouse, shrew, or vole. The hawk can eat a duckling, crow, or sparrow (and isn't likely to eat an owl anyhow). The wolf is more likely to eat a deer or caribou or elk, the bear to eat salmon or berries. And historically speaking the human hunts just about everything for food AND for prize and decoration because those are signs of how good of a food provider he is. Additionally, hunting is tied up in cultural ideas of masculinity and success. From a conservation and ecological perspective, actual hunting is a moot point. The problem is poaching (which is not hunting) for international trade (mostly in medicinals to China).

A food chain is a mental contruct--a simplicity created by humans for discussing trophic level interactions. In nature, its not an accurate assessment of what is actually going on in an ecosystem. Ecosystems are about niches, and niches are determined by the totality of the interaction of organisms with their environment. Except in very few instances of overspecialization (a handy way to go extinct with or without human interference) most organisms don't depend on any one other organism for survival.

No species has a "purpose", as "purpose" is a anthropomorphized leftover from the philosophy of Natural Theology during the 19th century. "Purpose" implies agency. A species doesn't have agency, individuals (if they are conscious decision makers, and many organisms are not) have agency. Purpose is deeply tied up in the *why* of which something exists, or for which something was created. Species don't evolve for apurpose, they evolve as a response to changes in their environment, including other species.

The problem isn't humans, its the contemporary Western lifestyle. The problem is the economic theory of the contemporary Western lifestyle which sells a faulty product of unlimited growth and unrestrained individual wealth, in which most of the 99% are trying to live like the 1% who control nearly all the world's resources.

[Medusa]

Re: What Purpose do Humans Serve In our Ecosystem

Can you elaborate a bit? I have trouble applying your example to my statement.

Yeah yeah
So you stated we as humans are the ones to end this cycle of the the earth's birth and death and birth again. That's like saying yeah, we are supposed to be this shitty of a species. That's the ticket! It's an excuse. A rationalization. A way to make us sound special. Oh look at us. WE are the species chosen by 'fill in the blank' to end the world! WE are sooo special. When in fact we just suck at following the very basic simple rules of life. Every other creature on this planet(brains or not) has figured out this shit.

We. Have not.