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    #31
    Re: women's rights... what's that?

    Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
    And, what if that Nazi party party was Christian White Supremacists, who could then claim religious prejudice?
    I'd think (Thal probably has a better answer) that it would have to be a claim that they're being discriminated against for being White or Christian and that claim will normally be difficult. White Supremacy in and of itself isn't protected.
    life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

    Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

    "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

    John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

    "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

    Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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      #32
      Re: women's rights... what's that?

      Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
      I'd think (Thal probably has a better answer) that it would have to be a claim that they're being discriminated against for being White or Christian and that claim will normally be difficult. White Supremacy in and of itself isn't protected.
      So people are allowed to select specific things out of a total religious doctrine, and apply prejudice only to those (assuming that the white supremacy is attached to the Christian part, even if only in their own doctrine)?

      Things are starting to look a bit weaselly, but I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know...
      Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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        #33
        Re: women's rights... what's that?

        Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
        (assuming that the white supremacy is attached to the Christian part, even if only in their own doctrine)?
        Assuming this can be done successfully, you have an interesting court case on your hands and I have no idea what current case law is. I'm also not willing to go searching for it so I'll wait to see how Thal answers.
        life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

        Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

        "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

        John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

        "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

        Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


        Comment

          #34
          Re: women's rights... what's that?

          Originally posted by Munin-Hugin View Post
          Yes, they very much do have a right to that. But in the example I made earlier where it would be law to proclaim the policies up front, the employee has the option to NOT work for such a company in the first place. If it's not your cup of tea, don't support it, don't work there, but in theory it is equally discriminatory to tell someone that their belief system isn't valid and that they have to run their business in a way that makes them uncomfortable and feel that their morals are being compromised.
          Then don't go into business if you can't hire people on the basis of skill and comply with reasonable non-discrimination regulations.

          Don't be a pharmacist if you can't fill all prescriptions because of your beliefs. Don't be a doctor if you can't give vaccinations or blood transfusions because of your beliefs. Don't be a tattoo artist if you can't give tattoos because of your beliefs.

          You have a greater personal choice to own a business than you do to get a job. Jobs don't grow on trees and you gotta work to eat. Employers enjoy societal privilege...they gotta pay the piper for it somehow.

          Once an employer's personal beliefs start interfering in the reasonable actions of their employee's private lives outside of working hours, they stop being personal beliefs and they start becoming a public menace. An employers rights stop when he/she tells me "you have to do this, or else".


          Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
          I like your answer much better than Hawkfeather's, but now I have to wonder...

          Why is one minority protected, but not another?
          Because we are a capricious people.

          And, what if that Nazi party party was Christian White Supremacists, who could then claim religious prejudice?
          Actually, something like this exists--there is a Christian denomination that doesn't allow miscegenation (wow, I spelled that without the spell check). They won't marry interracial couples as part of their religion (here's an individual congregation that has done that, though the circumstances are different). And they are allowed to refuse to do so, in the same way that the Catholic church would be allowed to not marry gay couples.

          So, if a business was run by *member of this congregation* could they refuse service to an interracial couple legally? Probably not. Could an interracial couple that runs a business refuse service to a member of this congregation? Probably not.

          BUT, could the company refuse to put a picture of Hitler on the cake or refuse to make a cake that looked like the swastika (those bastards that ruined a perfectly good sunwheel)? Probably...especially if they had something in their policy against profanity, discrimination, etc...or even without such a policy if they said "sorry, that is beyond my ability and skillset". In which case, the mythical Christian Church of White Supremacy would probably take their business elsewhere.

          I'd have to go digging (the SPLC and ACLU are good places to start, or my law buddy), but I'm sure there's decisions relating to the KKK that apply to this sort of thing)
          Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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            #35
            Re: women's rights... what's that?

            Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
            Assuming this can be done successfully, you have an interesting court case on your hands and I have no idea what current case law is. I'm also not willing to go searching for it so I'll wait to see how Thal answers.

            Well, my bet is that the ruling would go against the CWS (for the simple reason that they are a disliked minority), at least until the ACLU stepped in...

            - - - Updated - - -

            Originally posted by thalassa View Post
            ...or even without such a policy if they said "sorry, that is beyond my ability and skillset". In which case, the mythical Christian Church of White Supremacy would probably take their business elsewhere.
            Yeah, see that's what I would do if somebody came along and wanted a bracket that said something like "pro-life is an oxymoron." I'm too busy, I don't have time, it will cost you $200,000,000...

            But I'm a jerk. I wuz thinking more of honest people.
            Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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              #36
              Re: women's rights... what's that?

              Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post

              Yeah, see that's what I would do if somebody came along and wanted a bracket that said something like "pro-life is an oxymoron." I'm too busy, I don't have time, it will cost you $200,000,000...

              But I'm a jerk. I wuz thinking more of honest people.
              Yeah, but you didn't say "sure, I'll make you a 20 character sign" and then change your mind once you saw what was on it, AFTER you'd taken the money,etc...

              Along the lines of "oh, sure, we'll make a cake for your wedding! Here's the contract..." "Oh, you are a gay couple...nevermind."
              Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                #37
                Re: women's rights... what's that?

                LOL - I'm done playing. You win.

                Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                  #38
                  Re: women's rights... what's that?

                  Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
                  LOL - I'm done playing. You win.





                  Lol...I agree, its a fuzzy area. And no, its not entirely fair. But that be life. Certain groups have been enjoying extra fair for far too long, they've started to think its something owed to them.
                  Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                    #39
                    Re: women's rights... what's that?

                    If we are gonna get all up in racial purity,none of us would meet that mark...Really we would have to revert back to homo erectus (sp) or even Neanderthal to get back to that old time racial purity.
                    MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

                    all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
                    NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
                    don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




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                      #40
                      Re: women's rights... what's that?

                      Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
                      Is that a fact?

                      That's too bad. Try to make my hands do what my heart tells me is wrong and watch how quickly we come to blows.
                      My heart told me it was wrong to be belittled and patronized 40+ hours a week for decades but you know, I hadda pay the rent.

                      I'm very well-known for unpopular opinions. I do not see the world the way the majority of people do, and I'm glad.
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                      Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

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                        #41
                        Re: women's rights... what's that?

                        I'll be honest.
                        I won't fight for someone's right to eat a cake. Fuck em.
                        I will fight for someone's reproductive rights.
                        If you can't see the enormous difference, you got a problem understanding that stuff on paper is not stuff in the real world.
                        Satan is my spirit animal

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