Anti Gay app

[DanieMarie]

Re: Anti Gay app

They don't *have* to sell the app either.

You can get apps outside the iTunes App store. They're still free to offer the app on their website and if anyone is that gung ho about it they can go there and download it, which will download it to iTunes on their computer and can still sync with their phone. I can't get CIBC Mobile Banking with a German iTunes account (they don't do banking in Germany so they don't offer it on German iTunes) but I can still go to CIBC's website and download the app if I want it. iTunes is just a channel of distribution and like any store they're free to sell what they want, and pull products they feel are more trouble than they're worth.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Anti Gay app

[quote author=DanieMarie link=topic=1040.msg19242#msg19242 date=1291297726]
I get what you're saying. I didn't explain myself very well. What I meant was... etc.[/quote]

LOL - Sorry, DanieMarie. I figured that this is what you meant, but I've been reading a lot of philosophy lately, and my brain is in "Be extremely precise in the way you express ideas" mode .

[quote author=thalassa link=topic=1040.msg19246#msg19246 date=1291298651]
Do I think that it is sad that we live in a society where a good percentage of the population would be horrified at the idea of a White Power app, but are okay with an Anti-gay app? Absolutely.
[/quote]

The whole thing is well put.

There is a big difference between what people are free to do, and what each of us determines is appropriate to do. Being free to do a thing does not also mean that to do that thing is appropriate (which is a personal decision), and, making the personal decision that a thing is not appropriate to do does not mean that the freedom to do it must be removed from society.

Negotiating the tension and flux which operates between these two areas (what one is free to do & what one chooses to do) is the means by which a person creates his/her social self...

...for better or for worse.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Anti Gay app

[quote author=B. de Corbin link=topic=1040.msg19278#msg19278 date=1291305650]
LOL - Sorry, DanieMarie. I figured that this is what you meant, but I've been reading a lot of philosophy lately, and my brain is in "Be extremely precise in the way you express ideas" mode .

[/quote]

LOL it's probably for the best that you call me on being unclear. I'm a good writer and I'm good at organizing thoughts, but when I study a lot I have some trouble stringing them all together when I'm tired, because it's like overload. But that's not very conductive to exam-time...

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Anti Gay app

[quote author=DanieMarie link=topic=1040.msg19282#msg19282 date=1291306980]
LOL it's probably for the best that you call me on being unclear. I'm a good writer and I'm good at organizing thoughts, but when I study a lot I have some trouble stringing them all together when I'm tired, because it's like overload. But that's not very conductive to exam-time...
[/quote]

OH oh... I didn't mean to give you another head ache during finals...

[Maulus]

Re: Anti Gay app

[quote author=DanieMarie link=topic=1040.msg19244#msg19244 date=1291298337]
]A few things. 1) You can't sell to EVERYONE. So you have to decide who is more important as a customer. "Firing" customers is completely normal. Apple made their choice.[/quote]


I agree with you on this, Apple are quite within their rights to refuse to sell apps that are prejudiced against one group or another. What i was more concerned about was that this could start a bout of Tit-for-tat removals. i don't know, as an example, how about some right wingers decide to petition about removing something like a gaydar app as it could be deemed as gay-centric and all the pro family, corruption etc arguments that they may use in that case. If Apple had refused the App straight away, this wouldn't have even made news. Maybe Apple need to check what the Apps are before loading them into the App Store.



[quote author=DanieMarie link=topic=1040.msg19244#msg19244 date=1291298337]
2) Apple doesn't just operate in the US, nor does the US even make up the majority of their sales (though it's the largest chunk). So US conservatives aren't really holding that much sway.[/quote]


The App is aimed at American audiences, Although covering what is a world wide issue, but will hold no real influence outside of the states, as i understand it. - Having just read their Website, it does appear to be a US only declaration. Thus the Religious right in America will have some significant sway in purchases.


[quote author=DanieMarie link=topic=1040.msg19244#msg19244 date=1291298337]
3) Even within the US, liberals are much more avid technology consumers. And you don't want to offend the gays, because they spend a TON of money. They're actually a HIGHLY profitable consumer group. As a whole, I can tell you that for things like technology and luxury goods, they're a much more attractive customer target than religious right conservatives.
[/quote]
I agree with you here, the Pink Pound or Pink Dollar in this case does have a hell of a lot of sway with technology and is very attractive to a corporation. As a business, Apple will aim towards the gay market for a lot, but if they were "Firing" the White Power customers it is one thing that is relatively insignificant, but the religious right over there has quite a lot of power, as well as quite a large grass root support, and even they buy iPhones, iPads and iPods.


As i understood it, the App Store is available for any one to put an App on as long as it meets specific criteria, i would expect this to include no Hate mongering. however, selling your religious views, like this app seems to be doing (i admit i haven't seen the app, don't know what it does, or what happens if you get all the answers "Right" ) doesn't fit into the hate mongering category does it? if it does, then quite a large chunk or religious based apps would need to be removed too.


Maybe i am just playing Devil's Advocate here, but it does seem that Apple have given in to a petition from a small percentage of their customers that were offended by this. They may well have set a precedent that could be taken advantage of by other groups.


M

[DanieMarie]

Re: Anti Gay app

[quote author=B. de Corbin link=topic=1040.msg19287#msg19287 date=1291307960]
OH oh... I didn't mean to give you another head ache during finals...
[/quote]

Noooo no finals. Not until May. I just mean it's good practice to be coherent so it's good you called me on my lack of sense making

[DanieMarie]

Re: Anti Gay app

[quote author=Maulus link=topic=1040.msg19296#msg19296 date=1291310008]





The App is aimed at American audiences, Although covering what is a world wide issue, but will hold no real influence outside of the states, as i understand it. - Having just read their Website, it does appear to be a US only declaration. Thus the Religious right in America will have some significant sway in purchases.


[/quote]

True, and I was aware of this when I posted, but due to the miracle of the internet we can read about this stuff over here and be offended by it, and also adjust our purchasing behaviour accordingly. Just because an international company only sells a certain product in a certain market doesn't mean that they don't have to worry about the implications of that decision on their business as a whole. Same goes with how a product is marketed in specific markets. Look what happened to Nestle when they promoted formula in developing countries. TOTALLY affected their sales in their other markets.

And I do get your point, I just don't necessarily agree with it. And thus far pagan apps seem to be in no danger (do a search...there are SO many) and there's even an atheist app containing arguments against the existence of god, and they don't seem to be issues, probably because of Apple's customer base. But to be honest, while freedom of speech has to be represented in the public sector more or less, private companies are free to sell what they want (or not sell what they want), and if they feel a product just isn't worth it, they should by all means pull it.

[Maulus]

Re: Anti Gay app

[quote author=DanieMarie link=topic=1040.msg19303#msg19303 date=1291313073]
True, and I was aware of this when I posted, but due to the miracle of the internet we can read about this stuff over here and be offended by it, and also adjust our purchasing behaviour accordingly. Just because an international company only sells a certain product in a certain market doesn't mean that they don't have to worry about the implications of that decision on their business as a whole. Same goes with how a product is marketed in specific markets. Look what happened to Nestle when they promoted formula in developing countries. TOTALLY affected their sales in their other markets.
[/quote]


Good point, and i wasn't aware of the Nestle thing


M

[DanieMarie]

Re: Anti Gay app

[quote author=Maulus link=topic=1040.msg19304#msg19304 date=1291313300]

Good point, and i wasn't aware of the Nestle thing


M
[/quote]

It was a long while ago. I just brought it up because it's a really famous example.

[kijani]

Re: Anti Gay app

[quote author=Medusa link=topic=1040.msg19197#msg19197 date=1291282122]
Though I do commend Apple for taking a stance against this. I have a sneaking suspicion any app that had something to do with my religion on a serious basis, would also get protested and pulled. :-\
[/quote]

I agree, and you're probably right...

[Clive]

Re: Anti Gay app

[quote author=Medusa link=topic=1040.msg19192#msg19192 date=1291280837]
Questions:
Is it illegal to think anti-gay and vote anti-gay etc?
Do you think they should have pulled the app?
[/quote]

Answers:
1. No, people can think what they want and being allowed to vote how you want to is one of the rights we as Americans enjoy, even if other people don't like what you're voting for.
2. Yes, only because it implied a restriction on thought, i.e., the "0 out of 4" thing. Very Orwellian. But that's only my opinion. The decision was up to Apple, and if they had decided not to pull it, then the people who thought it was hateful and all that could take their money elsewhere.

[Bjorn]

Re: Anti Gay app

[quote author=Medusa link=topic=1040.msg19192#msg19192 date=1291280837]
SAUCE

Questions:
Is it illegal to think anti-gay and vote anti-gay etc?
Do you think they should have pulled the app?
[/quote]

Illegal to think anti gay? Uh, no. It is not illegal to vote anti-gay either. You're allowed to be as big of a prick as you want in America.

I would have pulled the App, but not because it was a Christian app, because it was an app that promoted hate and intolerance.