OK,here comes a really bad image: I need to see why they said this was Wiccan related

[anunitu]

Re: OK,here comes a really bad image: I need to see why they said this was Wiccan rel

Thing is the 80's panic was pure BS..The crazys from the religious right went all bat guano nuts,and it lasted for over 10 years almost.

[Gleb]

Re: OK,here comes a really bad image: I need to see why they said this was Wiccan rel

Let's see how it will turn out in the 21st century, then.

[Medusa]

Re: OK,here comes a really bad image: I need to see why they said this was Wiccan rel

http://wildhunt.org/2015/08/florida-...ia-frenzy.html

Ahh Florida. Makes sense. Hispanic cultures are very frightened of 'witch craft'. Even though most of them practice it without really realizing it.

Case in point: I live in a hispanic community. Mostly Catholics. Every other block is a Catholic church and or school. Down the street from me is a store. It's simply called 'Catholic Store'. And down from there by my dr's office is a place selling magic candles and waters and statues etc. For 'magic'. Now go into a mexican market down the non food aisle.....rows of candles. Oh sure. St Jude (my personal Patron Saint), baby Jesus and Mother of Guadalupe are the standard fare. And then there is the 'pray for good luck' candles, the 'I need money' candles etc etc. It's so intertwined, you cannot pull the two apart. Don't even get me started on Santa Muerta.

It's one big mess. No wonder.

[anunitu]

Re: OK,here comes a really bad image: I need to see why they said this was Wiccan rel

Oh my pure innocent child,the religious right does not do sane,why they almost crapped their collective pants over Harry Potter ya know.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: OK,here comes a really bad image: I need to see why they said this was Wiccan rel

To be honest I am inclined to believe this obsession with Witchcraft/Satanism is something only found the United States. The country I live in is highly syncretic all things considered, but the only cases of "ritual abuse" are condemned as people using religion for their own benefit, not as a religion being inherently dangerous or anything.

If I base my conclusions off of discussions I've had with people around the world then I'd have to disagree. I know South Africa has been in a heavy Satanic wave for about ten years now. Australia ended one about five years ago though some of it lingers based upon some discussions i've had. I know the 80's version was also pretty heavy in Scotland and England as I was stationed there at the time. South and Central America has them quit frequently from what i've seen. Africa is a whole different story when you consider the news items of witches being killed and the frequency of such news stories.

I think the US just happens to be more broader about it and it makes the news outside of the region more often.

[NeoPlatonic]

Re: OK,here comes a really bad image: I need to see why they said this was Wiccan rel

If I base my conclusions off of discussions I've had with people around the world then I'd have to disagree. I know South Africa has been in a heavy Satanic wave for about ten years now. Australia ended one about five years ago though some of it lingers based upon some discussions i've had. I know the 80's version was also pretty heavy in Scotland and England as I was stationed there at the time.

I am not sure about these places or how they deal with the phenomenon, but the only place I have heard from that actively tries to brand witches, wiccans, and pagans as evil is the United States. That it happens in other places is definitely possible, but I do not believe the obsession is as great as the Anglo-Saxon world. Or if it is, at least the have the wisdom to shut up about it when the world is looking their way.

South and Central America has them quit frequently from what i've seen.

Central America is a different matter altogether. There the witches have a different brand of syncretism, namely the debris from Aztec and Mayan faiths which despite popular acceptance has led to some very bizarre situations. Patron saints for drug cartels being one of them.

But in South America it depends heavily on the region you are at. Poorer areas are generally more superstitious but even then Witches offering their services to the public is something as common as tarot readings, even if popular belief considers them in a negative light which is not the norm.

A major point of Santeria and Umbanda for example is the usage of Catholic saint figures as stand-ins for African deities, and often practitioners have no shortage of demand for their services. The same places that sell supplies to "proper" Catholics also sell to witches and Santeria practitioners, and "Witch" is above "Priest" on the priority list when dealing with things like ghosts or such perceived negative influences.

Africa is a whole different story when you consider the news items of witches being killed and the frequency of such news stories.

Definitely. But that has to do with two facts: First that traditional religions have not syncreticed with major ones as in Latin America, and second that certain regions of African tend to be very fundamentalist and militant about it. The whole hostage situation with Boko Haram during May of this very same year would not have ocurred in Latin America, at least not for religious reasons. Maybe the mexican drug cartels could have carried out a similar operation, but not with the same goals.

It is true that the muslim world is more conservative at large than the christian one.

I think the US just happens to be more broader about it and it makes the news outside of the region more often.

Maybe so. It is also the only place that screams to the world about "christian values" and "traditional marriage".

[monsno_leedra]

Re: OK,here comes a really bad image: I need to see why they said this was Wiccan rel

NO they don't shut up about it they just don't have the need to broadcast everything to the world because they live in a tv series. It's also because the US has a very romantic perspective towards a lot of places and will do nothing to tarnish that image though many other nations media's do report on it and carry it.

I do admit though your doing one thing with your reply that many US and even western pagans do, trying to paint Witch as a good thing. Excuses of religion and spirituality being syncretized or conflated to make something more acceptable or based upon older beliefs and practices doesn't impact as much as your seemingly implying. In part because most older societies go to great lengths to separate those traits that are perceived as good and those that are bad. Lots of names for practitioners that the Western Occultism practices try to fit nicely into the term Witch which doesn't apply. Even within the US itself there is a lot of acceptance of certain terms and ideas that are believed to be good such as WaterWitch, animal mother's, etc that do not hold the same baggage or attempts to reclaim such as witch itself. Even within Christianity there are many folk and granny practices that are openly embraced and accepted and refuse to identify themselves as any sort of witch.

[NeoPlatonic]

Re: OK,here comes a really bad image: I need to see why they said this was Wiccan rel

I do admit though your doing one thing with your reply that many US and even western pagans do, trying to paint Witch as a good thing.

I was not saying it was a good or bad thing, merely that Hispanic people do not by and large consider witches to be "the spawn of satan". If you walked up to some random folk and told them you practiced witchcraft you could end up meeting a christian moralist, but you are far more likely to run into someone asking you if do readings or other such "work". As a culture, Hispanic people are very superstitious - and that goes both ways.

My point is that Latin culture is very accepting. You could call yourself Buddhist, Atheist, Hindu, even Scientologist or Raelian and nobody would bat an eye. Maybe they could be curious and ask you about your faith, but the majority will not accuse you of worshipping the wrong god/s.

Excuses of religion and spirituality being syncretized or conflated to make something more acceptable or based upon older beliefs and practices doesn't impact as much as your seemingly implying.

I am not implying it on the sense that every Latin believes the same things, but Latin society is very ecclectic as a whole. You will find that most people calling themselves "Catholics" are actually holding a myriad of New Age or mix-and-match beliefs. Most people believe in reincarnation and karma just as they believe in heaven and Jesus even if they do not call their beliefs that way. Ghosts, tarot, mediums - these beliefs are pervasive as well, and witchcraft is considered on the same level as them.

What has remained has been the social aspect, the Church goings, masses, the ceremonies. Most people are happy that the latest Pope is Latin, they happily acknowledge belief in the christian god but they are hardly an example of Catholic orthodoxy themselves. The vast majority of them are in stark contrast with their Church's policies or beliefs.

In part because most older societies go to great lengths to separate those traits that are perceived as good and those that are bad. Lots of names for practitioners that the Western Occultism practices try to fit nicely into the term Witch which doesn't apply. Even within the US itself there is a lot of acceptance of certain terms and ideas that are believed to be good such as WaterWitch, animal mother's, etc that do not hold the same baggage or attempts to reclaim such as witch itself. Even within Christianity there are many folk and granny practices that are openly embraced and accepted and refuse to identify themselves as any sort of witch.

Well, in my experience Latin America is the exact opposite of that: Most people would happily pay for the services of a witch and still call themselves "completely Catholic" while acknowledging that they use the services of a "good witch".

This is not to say there is an abscense of bigotry, just that it is not as superficial as it is in other regions of the world. You are sooner going to get discriminated by your looks than by your religion.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: OK,here comes a really bad image: I need to see why they said this was Wiccan rel

There I think your getting into the usage of words though. While the America's might use Brujo / Bruja for a practitioner they still have a word for evil or foul magics that is equated with other satanic type entities. Sorry can't think of it at the moment. So to go to the Brujo / Bruja is to use good magics or crafts which is no different than in the US using Water witches, root doctors, animal mothers, etc. Yet change the word and its acceptance changes as well.

It's like you could compare it to the Pow Wow usages. It's heavily based upon and derived from the usage of scriptures and sacred symbols / designs. Many Granny Magics and such have very heavy Christian influences upon them and may also incorporate biblical versus and such into their magics.

I do think part derives from trying to give "Witchcraft" a universal implied definition and usage. The US pagans have tried to reclaim the word but around the world it's not an accepting word or idea in my experience. Known a few people who had no problems if you called them other things but say witch and they'd come unglued and argue they were not witches nor practitioners of witchcraft.