migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

[anunitu]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

One Major issue these days is not trusting official Gov. Over the years people have learned to not trust the Gov for many reasons. Think back to some things the Gov did that were almost criminal. the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment,where they told mainly black men they were cured when they were not,to see the long term effects of it. There have been many examples where people remember and do not trust,and in a way can you really blame people.

The Study

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

Well, Canada has always worked with the UN and enjoyed a fairly secure global position and good relationships with other countries and it has never experienced major problems because of it. Once upon a time, we were a highly respected country in the International community that was admired for its ability to work with other countries and global organizations. Unfortunately, the Conservative party wants to change that. And even though more and more Canadians are buying into the culture of xenophobia, most Canadians do not.
It's junk like this that Canadians used to criticize and make fun of about the US, and now it's going down in our own country. Most of us STILL DO NOT WANT TO BE THAT COUNTRY. Unfortunately, the first-past-the-post voting system lets the Conservatives get in with a minority of the vote (less than a third of Canadians actually vote Conservative).

Same in the UK.

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I don't trust the UN, NATO, or any other pseudo-government agency to have my best interests in mind. The UN has moved known terrorists into the USA. I don't think their system works well.

Then who are you going to trust?
And how is the UN or NATO a 'pseudo government agency'?

[DanieMarie]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

Well, Canada has always worked with the UN and enjoyed a fairly secure global position and good relationships with other countries and it has never experienced major problems because of it. Once upon a time, we were a highly respected country in the International community that was admired for its ability to work with other countries and global organizations. Unfortunately, the Conservative party wants to change that. And even though more and more Canadians are buying into the culture of xenophobia, most Canadians do not.
It's junk like this that Canadians used to criticize and make fun of about the US, and now it's going down in our own country. Most of us STILL DO NOT WANT TO BE THAT COUNTRY. Unfortunately, the first-past-the-post voting system lets the Conservatives get in with a minority of the vote (less than a third of Canadians actually vote Conservative).

[DragonsFriend]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

I don't trust the UN, NATO, or any other pseudo-government agency to have my best interests in mind. The UN has moved known terrorists into the USA. I don't think their system works well.

[DanieMarie]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

They want to restrict their aid to those who are not dangerous, violent or radical? It is the same thing I would do before letting you in my home.

Except it trusts neither the UN nor the Citizenship and Immigration department to screen and vet refugees, both of which have far more experience in that area than the Prime Minister's office.

Let's not kid ourselves. It's an election year and Harper and the Conservatives are playing up the politics of ignorance and fear. TWO people have died within Canada's borders due to terrorism since September 11 (and I still think that tying both of those to islamic terrorism and not domestic issues is debatable)...TWO. Compare that to numerous unsolved cases of missing and murdered First Nations women over the past few years, for example. The Conservatives want to play up fear and ignorance to win votes and distract people from things that are actually happening in Canada, like continued racism, a sinking economy, and stripping away their rights and freedoms.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

And how could this be proved to one's satisfaction?
Or couldn't it?

[DragonsFriend]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

They want to restrict their aid to those who are not dangerous, violent or radical? It is the same thing I would do before letting you in my home.

[DanieMarie]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

News from Canada: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle26713562/

What's wrong with you Canada? Seriously....

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

The loss the world suffered in war was unfathomable, but nearly half a million Americans died, many of those in countries occupied by forces that didn't "piss on our harbor".

I've only weighed in because I felt in some cases this thread like some others in the Path has taken a wreck less anti American turn. I should resign myself from this one and just wait until the next one comes along, probably about how they way we take in migrants will be all wrong.

The reason I quoted 'American money and Russian blood' is because although the US lost nearly half a million Americans, the Russians losts 20 million people.

I'm not anti-American - in fact, look at my post again and you will see that I didn't spare the UK's behaviour either.

[thalassa]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

Thal is probably the one to ask here. States are significantly less sovereign than EU members but they do have a decent degree of voice. I just don't know if they get a say here.

From what I understand from when I worked for the Red Cross, the State Dpt determines who gets refugee status (and refugees are different than migrants), once they come here they are handled by a resettlement agency (usually a non-profit). In technicality (from what I understand), states (per the 1980 Refugee Act) can refuse to take people, but because of the manner in which they are resettled (thought a 3rd party) they don't really have any enforcement ability. And if they did, I think it would be a violation of the 14th amendment (which has been interpreted that non-citizens are protected under the Constitution) and freedom of movement (which has been determined in a number of SCOTUS cases).

[MaskedOne]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

MO prolly knows better about this than I do, but I don't think the federal government can dictate to states on this, anymore than Germany can dictate to Greece.

We have a thing called "state's rights" that limits what the Feds can do in individual states.

Thal is probably the one to ask here. States are significantly less sovereign than EU members but they do have a decent degree of voice. I just don't know if they get a say here.

[DanieMarie]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

I honestly don't know. You'd need a lawyer with experience in the area to know...

Haha complicated.

On another topic, only 8% of Syrian refugees polled in Germany plan on staying. The other 92% say they want to return to Syria when it's safe to go back. So for all of the people who are freaking out about "Muslims taking over our culture", they probably need not even worry: http://www.thelocal.de/20151008/refu...t-stay-forever

I guess in those cases, it's probably best to find places in Europe, as it's much closer. But not all of the refugees are coming from Syria. A lot are coming in from more long-term conflicts in places like Afghanistan, Somalia, and Iraq.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

Since immigration and asylum are a federal issues, could the federal government agree to accept a certain amount and then each state could chime in and volunteer how much they are able to accept? Or how does it work there? Also, since there is freedom of movement for legal residents of the US, couldn't the federal government sort of just advise them on where to go? I know it's not possible to say "don't go to California", but isn't it possible to say "We don't recommend that you go to California"?

I honestly don't know. You'd need a lawyer with experience in the area to know...

[DanieMarie]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

Unless the money runs out.

Well the rub is that most of the strongest economies in Europe (not just Germany...Sweden and France have also voiced a lot of support, for example) are for liberal asylum seeker policies. And they're even willing to take in more refugees than other countries. As in, a lot more. Germany has committed to accepting 500,000 refugees and may even commit to more. It only expects countries like Poland and Hungary to take in 10,000 each.

Also, as to why they're coming to Europe and not Russia or places like that, just think about it for a second. If you're fleeing your war zone country, you want to go somewhere pretty stable, prosperous, and pretty free of corruption. The EU is a pretty attractive place in that regard, whereas Russia is definitely not. Russia is not a place that most people picture when they think "If I could live anywhere in the world..." That being said, when refugees are interviewed, they often say their dream destination is Canada. A lot want to be able to get into Canada at some point.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: migrants:What to do...Europe needs to decide.

I think the issue is more a matter of it's up to the US citizens to say whether we have space or not, not for someone else to say if we have more than enough space. Just as it is up to our citizens to make demands upon our government as to who and what we shall aid with.

Each European country reserves that right for its citizens and national needs. Then gets really pissed if the US or other countries "Advise" them on what they should be doing. Ask yourselves why they are coming to Europe and not heading into Russia, more easterly areas and such. Why? Probably more of that give an inch and they take a mile in return. The others refuse to give even that inch or open up the flood gates to massively receive. Lets not even really look at the ease of crossing borders with the EU formation that existed prior to this.

Lets not even look at the historical continuation than ran right from WWI into creating WWII. The likes of Chamberlain as Prime Minister and his appeasement to Hitler.