Archaeoastronomy

[Briton]

I believe that is the right word!

I'm interested to know what anyone here knows of the alignment of stone circles in Britain (which appear to have served a different purpose than in Iron Age Scandinavia).

As you may know, the series of moon phases runs on a cycle of 19 years, so for example there is a full moon on the 11th November. This won't happen again until 2034.

Interestingly, but perhaps unsurprisingly, many stone circles have 19 stones (Merry Maidens, Biscawen-un), or 9 with a gap (because you can't have half a stone!). Did these definitely align with a certain moon phase once a year, or maybe it marked a solstice every year of the cycle which rose in a different place on the horizon... Then there are circles with 38 stones, which could mark half years (both solstices?) and others with more odd numbers (The Hurlers). Do we know what alignment any of these circles have? Star signs maybe? I don't know. Thoughts? Links to articles?

[Munin-Hugin]

Re: Archaeoastronomy

As you may know, the series of moon phases runs on a cycle of 19 years, so for example there is a full moon on the 11th November. This won't happen again until 2034.

Hmm. I wonder just how accurate this is though, since it's not really 19 years. It would either 6940 or 6939 days, depending upon at while part of the Leap Year cycle those 19 years fell. While that doesn't seem like a big deal, you have to take into consideration that 11 days were lost back in 1752, and ever since then the concept of Leap Year was brought into play. It would take a whole bunch of calculations and the like to actually figure out all that stuff, and math and I are not very good friends.

Now, I know that there have been tons of various theories about the meaning, alignment, and numerical significance, but these days that's all that we can have; theories.

[Briton]

Re: Archaeoastronomy

For people who appear to have relied on an oral tradition and without the equipment we have today, I'd say 19 years is accurate enough for a stone circle, but thank you for clarifying.

[Munin-Hugin]

Re: Archaeoastronomy

For people who appear to have relied on an oral tradition and without the equipment we have today, I'd say 19 years is accurate enough for a stone circle, but thank you for clarifying.

I'd think accuracy IS the point for something like this. A day, an hour, even a minute off and the trajectory of a celestial body is no longer in the correct place for an alignment with a specific point on an earthly construct. Plus, I think you are not giving those folks enough credit for the amazing works that they had done without the equipment we have today. The henges, the pyramids, Easter Island, the Antikythera mechanism (very pertinent to this issue), and so on and so on. If the henges were crafted as astrological devices, that sort of accuracy is something that I would expect to find. What takes us computers, calculators, and all sorts of special scientific devices they were able to do with a bunch of rocks, communication, and patience.

The Metonic Cycle does work out almost perfectly over our current Julian calender in 19 year periods (coming in at 234.997 lunar months over that time). That also explains why the date of the Christian holiday of Easter changes it's date from year to year as well. Interestingly, the fact that the length of days didn't quite fit into either a lunar or solar calendar was known about as far back as Babylon.

To use Stonehenge (since it's probably the most well known of the henges) as an example, so many different things have come to light as to it's purpose. From a calendar, to a ritual place, to the discovery of cremation remains and bones suggesting that it was a place for death practices, the jury is really still out as to it's actual role. Perhaps it was used as all of the above, or maybe something totally different. The only thing that most folks can agree upon is that they served some sort of ceremonial purpose.

[magusphredde]

Re: Archaeoastronomy

When calculating the time periods (day, wee, month, etc ) of long ago you have to wonder if the relationship between the Earth, Moon and Sun have slightly changed ... Has the Earth increased or decreased its distance from the sun therefore lengthening or shortening daytime to what we have now? Maybe due to lunar gravity? ... Has the number of minutes it takes for the Moon to travel around the Earth lengthened? or shortened? ...

[Briton]

Re: Archaeoastronomy

I just don't think they had the level of precision we do. The fact that so many of the circles contain 19 stones, as you say this marries up with the Metonic cycle.

Since the Bronze Age, even the Neolithic, the distance between Earth and the Sun has expanded by less than a kilometre. I can't imagine over millions of miles that this is significant. What I want to know is if anyone has found patterns. I will find criticisms of these findings, I just want to know if there are any observed.

[Bard A Madsen]

Re: Archaeoastronomy

Briton - I'm not sure about alignments, but assuredly it is a calendar and represents the Globe Ark (Also,the mundane egg in other cultures.) that the sky closed upon. From the Mythology and Rites of the British Druids by Edward Davis, 1809 : "Elegy of Uthr Pendragon, that is, wonderful supreme leader, or wonderful chief Dragon, this God is introduced in pageantry, and describes himself as the God of War, the Atherial, having the Rainbow for his Girdle, he is an enchanter, and the president of Haearndor, the Vessel with the Iron Door. In the second part of this poem, a sacrificing priest invokes this God for the propriety of Britain. He styles him Hu, with the Expanding Wings – father, and king of Bards – father Deon, presiding in the mundane Circle of Stones. He is again named Prydain – the glancing Hu – the sovereign of Heaven – the Gliding King – the Dragon, and the victorious Beli, Lord of the honey island, or Britain. The same personage has the name of Gwarthmor, ruler of the Sea, Menwyd the blessed, and the Dragon ruler of the World. He was the constructor of Kyd, the Ark, which passed the grievous Waters, stored with corn, and was borne aloft by Serpents."


"The Circular Temple is consecrated to the Diluvian God, and his vessel ; and the season of their festive dance, is proclaimed by the Cuckoo."

To reinforce this look 27 miles North to Avebury where there use to be a huge serpent (Comet) depicted as circling the Sun. Now, just a rampart and stone henge with a stone called Eve.

[Briton]

Re: Archaeoastronomy

Well as stone circles were all built long before Druids, I don't think it was built with their beliefs in mind, so bronze age and Neolithic ideas of important alignments would be different from the beliefs of the iron age. Also, no offence but that early 19th century quote is just word salad to me.

[ThePaganMafia]

Re: Archaeoastronomy

When calculating the time periods (day, wee, month, etc ) of long ago you have to wonder if the relationship between the Earth, Moon and Sun have slightly changed ... Has the Earth increased or decreased its distance from the sun therefore lengthening or shortening daytime to what we have now? Maybe due to lunar gravity? ... Has the number of minutes it takes for the Moon to travel around the Earth lengthened? or shortened? ...

So, there is a way this can calculate this. The earliest phase of construction at Stonehenge began are 3100 BC. So, it's approximately 5115 years old by that measure. Granted, the stones weren't raised til some centuries later. Now we must know how far the Earth and moon moves away from their respective orbits this year. We can find that here:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17228-why-is-the-earth-moving-away-from-the-sun.html

So, according to the link the Earth moves away from the sun at 15 centimeters a year and its rotation slows down by 0.000017 second per year due to tidal forces. The moon itself gets farther from the Earth each year by 4 centimeters.

So, given this we can infer from the data that the Earth has moved about 2,500 feet from the sun in 5115 years or just under half a mile. Its rotation and thus day length has slowed down 0.086955 seconds. And the moon has moved 670 feet farther than us in that time period.

[Serria]

Re: Archaeoastronomy

Is Archeologyastronomy really exist?!?! Please I've been juggling with my love of history and astronomy as potential careers for years!! :='(:

[Bard A Madsen]

Re: Archaeoastronomy

Serria - The Dawn of Astronomy: A Study of the Temple-Worship and Mythology of Ancient Egyptians Norman J. Lockyer. I almost got a 1890 The Meteoritric Hypothesis by the same author for $15, but the order was canceled, bummer ! I didn't even know about this one , Stonehenge and Other British Stone Monuments Astronomically Considered by Norman Lockyer.

Briton - Well if they have a tradition that goes back to the Deluge that would predate the megaliths. I'm sure they had Druids when it was built, plus the sign of the serpent and the sun is all about the Deluge.