attacks on Paris

[MaskedOne]

Re: attacks on Paris

Daesh is currently fighting a war on all sides. Yes, developed powers could speed it up by coming in on the ground but most of them for a variety of reasons consider it better to provide air, intelligence and logistical support. Don't confuse limited action and inaction though. Daesh has earned itself the very violent attention of a lot of people.

[DanieMarie]

Re: attacks on Paris

It's not really that easy. In a lot of cases, the problem isn't always in Syria, it's at home. Going on the offensive isn't changing the fact that there are French and Belgian nationals who feel excluded enough from society to join these movements. I think if it wasn't this one, it could easily be something else. European integration is a huge issue here and it's one that most countries are still wrapping their heads around. They want to cling to their culture, but in doing so, they tend to alienate people who come from immigrant backgrounds (even people born here whose families have been here for a few generations). They face a LOT of racism and have trouble getting jobs and such. If you're the "angry young man" type, you're probably going to take that out on someone. In most cases, it just takes the form of heckling people on the streets and macho posturing, but a lot of radical groups target these people, and for a reason. In a lot of ways, it's the same story with Neo Nazi groups. They look for young people who are out of work, poor, and really angry about it.

I'd say it's even more complicated in places like Belgium, because on top of all the baggage about European identity, you have distinct cultural identities within the country that are often at odds with each other. Belgians aren't just Belgians...they're Flemish Belgians or Wallon Belgians. If you come from an immigrant background, you're neither, which must be a weird place to be. Heck, even other Europeans don't feel that they fit in.

As for dealing with people actually in Syria, if air strikes solved terrorism and violence, then the past 12 years of war in Iraq and Afghanistan should have sorted things out by now. They haven't.

[DragonsFriend]

Re: attacks on Paris

I watched a news video last night of some of the problems the mass movement of people is causing. The trains used to transport the refugees were to slow for a large number of refugees and this huge crowd started to walk instead of waiting for the trains. People were complaining that the refugees were taking over their homes, there was looting of shops, and the police were totally unprepared for the large numbers of people. Reports of multiple rapes, one was a seven year old girl riding her bike home from school who was raped by two men of "north African" decent. It was very careful not to use the "M" word (Muslim) but the movement of thousands of people walking the roads, taking what they wanted, and yelling that they were going to breed out the European population until all of Europe was one large Muslim country.

It is ignorant to overlook the fact that not all these people are friendly folks who want to escape war. There is some who want ti export war to the new countries.

[DanieMarie]

Re: attacks on Paris

Funny, I live in the destination country of a lot of people. We have tens of thousands of refugees arriving weekly (thousands in Berlin alone) and I haven't heard of any looting, rapes, or anything like that. I see a LOT more "non-white" people around than I used to, but that's it.

Don't believe the scare mongering, people. Your conservative media is lying to you.

- - - Updated - - -

It is ignorant to overlook the fact that not all these people are friendly folks who want to escape war. There is some who want ti export war to the new countries.

Ignorant? Really? I FISHING LIVE HERE. I have worked with refugees. I have friends who work with them on a weekly basis. I think I'm a hell of a lot less ignorant about this issue than you are.

[anunitu]

Re: attacks on Paris

There is always the "Stories" that hateful people spread. Xenophobia,always growing like a weed between the cracks in the path.

[thalassa]

Re: attacks on Paris

Funny, I live in the destination country of a lot of people. We have tens of thousands of refugees arriving weekly (thousands in Berlin alone) and I haven't heard of any looting, rapes, or anything like that. I see a LOT more "non-white" people around than I used to, but that's it.

One of my coworkers just got back from 4weeks in Europe in 3 different countries and basically said the same thing.

[DanieMarie]

Re: attacks on Paris

One of my coworkers just got back from 4weeks in Europe in 3 different countries and basically said the same thing.

Not surprised

[ThePaganMafia]

Re: attacks on Paris

That's really the jist of it. The anti-refugee folks say they want to keep terrorists out but what they mean is they want to keep brown people out.

[Herbert]

Re: attacks on Paris

Very well said.

[DanieMarie]

Re: attacks on Paris

This is the kind of thing that has been happening here. What a menace: http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/trending...less-1.3336892

[Willow]

Re: attacks on Paris

I watched a news video last night of some of the problems the mass movement of people is causing. The trains used to transport the refugees were to slow for a large number of refugees and this huge crowd started to walk instead of waiting for the trains. People were complaining that the refugees were taking over their homes, there was looting of shops, and the police were totally unprepared for the large numbers of people. Reports of multiple rapes, one was a seven year old girl riding her bike home from school who was raped by two men of "north African" decent.

.... snip ....

I don't really want to get involved in the politics of this discussion. I have no helpful opinions on the matter, I simply think the whole situation is jacked up. I also firmly believe that there are bigger plots afoot that the regular person simply isn't privy to that is affecting these circumstances and because we don't know all that's going on and all the why's, how's and all that, that there isn't really a lot we can do on the ground level that isn't going to create more chaos and loss.

That being said, I just wanted to point out something from my own end. I'm currently in one of these countries that has refugees passing through it on their way to more northern areas, and the footage I've been seeing over the past 5 weeks that I've been out here and the witness statements we've been getting from friends do support the issues that were mentioned in the above post. I've actually quit watching the news about it over the past week because the whole situation makes me feel ill. Maybe it makes me a bad person that I don't want to see the constant news feeds, especially with all this stuff going on with Russia, Turkey, the police shootings back in our other home, the protests, and all that other awesome $#!&.

There was some burglary and destruction of private homes with some refugees in the country I'm staying in right now. There has been a lot of vandalism. They've burned the tents they were given for shelter. A child was raped, but it was a refugee child and he was raped by a European citizen in one of the areas they passed through (which was the only rape I had heard about happening in this neck of the woods). They leave a lot of trash, many are exceedingly rude, the law enforcement personnel are severely understaffed to handle the amount of people passing through and that has raised some more issues.

That being said, it's not all the refugees behaving this way. And mob mentality is a thing; sometimes the few who speak the loudest have more sway for bad decision making. But there are also the news feeds of those mothers with small children who are simply trying to survive. So I'm not saying all the refugees are horrible people. I'm simply saying that there is vandalism, robbery, crowding, and other issues that are negatively affecting the areas they walk through. One of which I hadn't thought of was the case of a spa city that has lost a lot of money because of refugees passing through and the subsequent unwillingness of customers to go there for their retreats.

The whole thing is just a mess. I can't have a simple opinion on the matter because it's not a simple situation. So I'll just leave my input on that note.

[DanieMarie]

Re: attacks on Paris

I think the important thing to remember is that there are jerks in every group of people. I'm sure some refugees are jerks to people in their host countries and the countries they pass through, but a lot of locals are jerks too. That always drove me crazy with the "Turks are..." stereotypes that some people have here. Yeah, I got followed by a Turkish guy once. I've also been followed by German guys on three separate occasions. The odd Turkish guy has harassed me on the street, but I've had far more German guys harass me on the street (I use the Turks as an example because they've been here a lot longer and until the refugee crisis hit, they had to bear most of the racism in this country).

[Willow]

Re: attacks on Paris

I think the important thing to remember is that there are jerks in every group of people. I'm sure some refugees are jerks to people in their host countries and the countries they pass through, but a lot of locals are jerks too. That always drove me crazy with the "Turks are..." stereotypes that some people have here. Yeah, I got followed by a Turkish guy once. I've also been followed by German guys on three separate occasions. The odd Turkish guy has harassed me on the street, but I've had far more German guys harass me on the street (I use the Turks as an example because they've been here a lot longer and until the refugee crisis hit, they had to bear most of the racism in this country).

Agreed. Entirely.

[anunitu]

Re: attacks on Paris

I remember reading about a certain German leader,from way before and a discussion of if he was indeed a raciest. If that what drove him against certain ethnic groups. The argument was what seemed hate was in reality more a political scapegoat to use as a distraction to allow other oppressions. The question is,are the right wing groups really hating refugees or just using it to garner power. To allow them to gain majority in governments?

[DanieMarie]

Re: attacks on Paris

Maybe a bit of both. I think leaders definitely use it as a tool, but there are still a lot of racist people out there. Their racism usually stems from fear and total ignorance, so it's easy to prey upon.