Just finished watching Pearl Harbor. Love the movie. My grandpa died on the anniversary of it though. Anyway, I wanted to ask a question that has been on my mind for a while and just wanted ya'lls opinion. Do you think that they should raise any of ships or should have after the war? I always wondered and have been on the fence. On one hand I would have wanted the men to get a proper burial, however, being under the water all those years you never know how it would react if it was pulled out. But it reminds me of like a mass burial site with no respect in a way. So many died during that day and I guess it would be right not to disturb them, but it always has been on my mind. What do you all think?
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PF Ordo Hereticus
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Re: Pearl Harbor
The Arizona is actually honored rather significantly with a memorial built over it's resting place and naval and coast guard traditions related to it when ships approach. I'm not sure off hand if the other ships there have their own honors or the memorial for Arizona is meant to provide honor to all ships lost at Pearl but the Navy honors its dead there and Arizona is treated as an active military cemetary.life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.
Yoda: Dark Rendezvous
"But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."
John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper
"You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."
Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis
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Re: Pearl Harbor
There's only two ships at Pearl Harbor that were never raised after the attack. Those are the USS Arizona (BB-39) and the USS Utah (BB-31). Both have Memorials at Pearl Harbor though the Arizona's is the better known memorial. The Utah had 64 men and officers killed during the attack, like Arizona those entombed in her hull have never been removed.
It's a little known fact but there was a second disaster at Pearl harbor as well that is often called THE SECOND PEARL HARBOR or West Lock Disaster. 163 were killed, 193 wounded and all the dead were buried in the Punchbowl Crater Cemetery. The burnt out wreck of LST-480 still rest on the shoreline of the West Lock were it was destroyed from the fire's and explosions.
Often dubbed the "Second Pearl Harbor," the West Loch disaster in Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, saw six large landing ships explode, burn, and sink on May 21, 1944.
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As a side note when the Arizona went down she not only blew in half but the explosion caused her decks to collapse down upon themselves from the extreme heat of the fires. Some bodies were recovered from the wreck but the majority of the entombed men would never have been recoverable due to being destroyed by the complete destruction of the ship and their bodies.
The fact the ships fuel bunkers had recently been filled means she was fully fueled so the ship would have burned easily once the fires were started and the tanks ruptured. Her internal structure was both broken across the ship and along the length of the ship for some distance though I've never seen any reports that state just how far length wise. But basically the bottom was blown out and she went straight down after the explosion lifted the hull upwards.
Today there is still fuel oil seeping out of her ruptured bunkers and will continue to do so for many years to come.I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!
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Re: Pearl Harbor
There are many lost ships that are treated as war graves around the world. This link may take you to a story that you've not heard in the US, but it happened just after the outbreak of WW2 late in 1939. There was still oil on the wreck in 2012 (and they continue as far as I know to try and remove it, plus the unexploded bombs, etc. that were on board).
I'm not sure wrecks are any better for being shifted provided they're not causing a hazard to shipping. Nor am I certain whether the dead are more honoured for being brought back to land. It can cause a lot of heartache either way.
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MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED
all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.
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my new page here,let me know what you think.
nothing but the shadow of what was
witchvox
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Re: Pearl Harbor
Thanks everyone. I would like to go to Hawaii and see the Pearl Harbor memorial. I have learned from you. Ya'll know I am a history buff, but I have read more on the foreign side of the war. So I need to read more about Pearl Harbor. Thank you all for your information.Anubisa
Dedicated and devoted to Lord Anubis and Lady Bast. A follower of the path of Egyptian Wicca.
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Re: Pearl Harbor
Originally posted by anubisa View PostThanks everyone. I would like to go to Hawaii and see the Pearl Harbor memorial. I have learned from you. Ya'll know I am a history buff, but I have read more on the foreign side of the war. So I need to read more about Pearl Harbor. Thank you all for your information.
I know it was an eerie somber feeling when I was out there on the memorial. Each little bubble of oil coming up from the wreck was almost like a drop of blood as it came to the surface then breaks on the surface to slowly grow wider and wider. Before you go out to the ship itself you'll sit through a short film about the battle that will also cover the then current condition of the ship. It was taken around the wreck and like a background subliminal chant they read off the names of those who died and were entombed.
One of the things I did as part of my retirement shadow box is my flag was flown over the memorial. Basically a Shadow Box is a keep sake of our career that usually has a listing of our medals & ribbons we've earned, a US Flag, a listing of our duty stations, many times hat devices of all the ranks we achieved while we served. Maybe other memorabilia such as command coins & patches for instance.I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!
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Re: Pearl Harbor
IMHO the slumbering ships and their silent dead are a monument in and of themselves. I cannot say what value raising them would have. That being said, I am also of the mind that those who perished in the attacks are far beyond this place now, and their bodies are just matter within this physical plane, as are the ships that slipped beneath the waves on that day. I suppose that I believe that whatever action is taken on the physical plane by the living serves a purpose for the living alone and has little impact on the dead. But, in some sense, I believe that there is a certain amount of respect to be had in refraining from disturbing the final resting place of those who have passed on.
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Re: Pearl Harbor
we require a place to allow a reason for our reaching for death and destruction in war,and at times wishing some redemption will not require us to face the truth that war is never the path to freedom,but just the tightening of our collective chains to our loss over and over again, but will never lead to and end to the human plague of our destruction of our eternal souls from our lack of any true vision of our collective guilt.MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED
all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.
sigpic
my new page here,let me know what you think.
nothing but the shadow of what was
witchvox
http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html
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Silver Member
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- solitary pagan witch with a strong interest in Anglo Saxons
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- Phantom Turnips never die. They just get stewed occasionally....
Re: Pearl Harbor
Another thought - in no way intended to detract from this thread although please bear in mind that many people in the UK strongly resented US hesitation in joining in - is this:
According to Wiki, 2,335 American servicemen were killed and 1,143 were wounded. Eighteen ships were sunk or run aground, including five battleships.
Now take a look at this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack...-el-K%C3%A9bir
To paraphrase, this was when the French Fleet was bombed by air on 3rd July 1940. 1,297 french sailors were killed, five ships damaged and a battleship sank.
Who did the deed? The British. Their Allies. And they did it after France capitulated to Germany to prevent their ships being used against Britain.
And hardly anyone outside of France has even heard of it.
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Re: Pearl Harbor
Originally posted by anunitu View Postwe require a place to allow a reason for our reaching for death and destruction in war,and at times wishing some redemption will not require us to face the truth that war is never the path to freedom,but just the tightening of our collective chains to our loss over and over again, but will never lead to and end to the human plague of our destruction of our eternal souls from our lack of any true vision of our collective guilt.
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Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View PostAnother thought - in no way intended to detract from this thread although please bear in mind that many people in the UK strongly resented US hesitation in joining in - is this:
According to Wiki, 2,335 American servicemen were killed and 1,143 were wounded. Eighteen ships were sunk or run aground, including five battleships.
Now take a look at this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack...-el-K%C3%A9bir
To paraphrase, this was when the French Fleet was bombed by air on 3rd July 1940. 1,297 french sailors were killed, five ships damaged and a battleship sank.
Who did the deed? The British. Their Allies. And they did it after France capitulated to Germany to prevent their ships being used against Britain.
And hardly anyone outside of France has even heard of it.Anubisa
Dedicated and devoted to Lord Anubis and Lady Bast. A follower of the path of Egyptian Wicca.
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PF Ordo Hereticus
- Mar 2009
- 8675
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- elsewhere
- The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force.
Re: Pearl Harbor
Originally posted by anubisa View PostBig words anu and never truer.
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You're right. I never heard of it. I also thought that the French were forced into helping Germany. Germany captured France in War World II if I'm correct. That's crazy as hell.
that collaborrated rather heavily with Germany running southern France. Northern France stayed under military occupation.life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.
Yoda: Dark Rendezvous
"But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."
John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper
"You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."
Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis
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