Whatcha thinking about now?

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: Whatcha thinking about now?

I kinda feel sorry for Barron Trump. The kid has his own floor in a luxury NYC building, goes to fancy private school, etc., and now he's gonna have to go slumming in D.C. This will be the first First Family taking a step down in lifestyle.

[thalassa]

Re: Whatcha thinking about now?

One reason the electoral college was set up the way it was.

The EC was set up for purely two reasons 1) because the FF didn't really want democracy (they feared ignorance of voters, who at the time were property owning men over the age of 21), and 2) to allow the slave states to have more power--slaves were 3/5 of a person, contributing to their HoR vote (and eventually, thanks to Madison) their EC power. The EC was never abolished because it kept that power for segregationists and for the urban-rural state divide, which favors the minority party. Without local or national gerrymandering, the GOP would either no longer exist, or would look fundamentally different.


Without the EC, we would also have a much easier time getting viable third parties.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Whatcha thinking about now?

It still ensures equal representation of lessor populated areas of the states vice unequal influence due to population density. Something occurring even today when you consider how our population is located in certain regions and a driving factor behind the protest to have the electoral college ignore the state results and vote Clinton into office due to the popular vote.

[thalassa]

Re: Whatcha thinking about now?

It still ensures equal representation of lessor populated areas of the states vice unequal influence due to population density. Something occurring even today when you consider how our population is located in certain regions and a driving factor behind the protest to have the electoral college ignore the state results and vote Clinton into office due to the popular vote.

It suppresses democracy. Democracy isn't based on acreage.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Whatcha thinking about now?

It suppresses democracy. Democracy isn't based on acreage.

But the US isn't a democracy it's a Republic, people seem to forget that.

[anunitu]

Re: Whatcha thinking about now?

I am a bit tired of seeing people in comment sections talking about just shooting the other side. Enough of this violent crap. If we gonna have a civil war,then take it to a deserted island,and have at it.

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: Whatcha thinking about now?

Decided to take a break from facebook. Can't take the insanity anymore. I think it will lower my stress level.

I hear that! I just indulged in some Boss therapy - "Badlands" at full volume at 85 mph cures everything!

[anunitu]

Re: Whatcha thinking about now?

I kinda feel sorry for Barron Trump. The kid has his own floor in a luxury NYC building, goes to fancy private school, etc., and now he's gonna have to go slumming in D.C. This will be the first First Family taking a step down in lifestyle.

Well you know Malinia doesn't really
have to live in the White house,she could live in the Towers with the kid. But perhaps Donald is afraid she will steal the silver(gold) utensils,and blow the country.

But that just how I imagine it...

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Whatcha thinking about now?

The EC was set up for purely two reasons 1) because the FF didn't really want democracy (they feared ignorance of voters, who at the time were property owning men over the age of 21), and 2) to allow the slave states to have more power--slaves were 3/5 of a person, contributing to their HoR vote (and eventually, thanks to Madison) their EC power. The EC was never abolished because it kept that power for segregationists and for the urban-rural state divide, which favors the minority party. Without local or national gerrymandering, the GOP would either no longer exist, or would look fundamentally different.


Without the EC, we would also have a much easier time getting viable third parties.

Giving this some more consideration. Even if the electoral college (though it wasn't called that) was set up based upon slavery influence, it's basis was set in our constitution so is still the law of the land. No petition can change that. It would require a change to the constitution which would require a constitutional convention near as I recall or an amended amendment which still is not going to be effected by a petition regardless of how many signatures it has.

I tend not to care for wiki but it does have a chart here showing gains and losses to the electoral vote for the states based on the 2010 census

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College_(United_States)

[MaskedOne]

Re: Whatcha thinking about now?

Removing the college without an Amendment is a non-starter. Modifying it is much, much simpler. The states decide how Electors are appointed. The Constitution dictates number and that they must be appointed but everything else is a state matter. Having the states collectively switch to a proportional system would dramatically improve the college and is an option with existing precedent (2 states already do this).

Edit: Also

http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/written-explanation

Would effectively bypass the College completely. It just needs more states to sign on and it goes active.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Whatcha thinking about now?

I am a bit tired of seeing people in comment sections talking about just shooting the other side. Enough of this violent crap. If we gonna have a civil war,then take it to a deserted island,and have at it.

You know how I feel about violent revolutions - unless things get so very, very bad that there is no other choice, it is better to work through a political process. The U.S. has them in place, but they only work if people use them.

There ARE things that can be done, and I will be doing them, I assure you.

tRump used hatred, racism, insults to attain power. Now he thinks he's going to bring the country together. Sorry dude. There is a cost for what you've done, and you will be paying it. Not through violence (I hope, though I can't speak for others) but, because he has earned the hatred of over 50% of the population who were active enough to get off their asses and vote, he isn't going to find his tenure in office comfortable.

In addition, I am wearing a safety pin, and making donations to the ACLU. I will also remember the spineless tribbles who supported him every time I vote.

There is more, but that's where I begin.

- - - Updated - - -

I kinda feel sorry for Barron Trump. The kid has his own floor in a luxury NYC building, goes to fancy private school, etc., and now he's gonna have to go slumming in D.C. This will be the first First Family taking a step down in lifestyle.

Oh my goodness! Poor pampered Barron! They may have to put some of his toys in storage.

[thalassa]

Re: Whatcha thinking about now?

But the US isn't a democracy it's a Republic, people seem to forget that.

Yup, but Republics are a type of democracy. The only difference between the two is that a Republic guarantees (to borrow the phrase), certain inalienable rights, by virtue of written laws.

The Republic is designed to protect the rights of minority groups from the tyranny of majority, not to override the legitimately democratic decisions--one of which is choosing governmental representatives (little r, not big R).

Giving this some more consideration. Even if the electoral college (though it wasn't called that) was set up based upon slavery influence, it's basis was set in our constitution so is still the law of the land. No petition can change that. It would require a change to the constitution which would require a constitutional convention near as I recall or an amended amendment which still is not going to be effected by a petition regardless of how many signatures it has.

I don't disagree with you at all on the petition aspect of things. It is in the Constitution. Ironically though, gerrymandering (and the EC is most definitely gerrymandering on a national scale) is considered unconstitutional--it denies the right of citizens equal protection under the law.

This is a possibility...

Removing the college without an Amendment is a non-starter. Modifying it is much, much simpler. The states decide how Electors are appointed. The Constitution dictates number and that they must be appointed but everything else is a state matter. Having the states collectively switch to a proportional system would dramatically improve the college and is an option with existing precedent (2 states already do this).

There is still one problem with this though... And basically it comes down to this: 1 elector is worth a variable number of individuals, depending on the state in question. This also has repercussions for every single vote in the HoR.


IMO: What we really need to do is increase the size of the House of Representatives so that 1 elector=a set # of people*, regardless of state, rather than the proportion of each state to the overall population within a set # of people (435+6 territorial reps).

*if the smallest (pop size) state gets one vote, than that # (to the nearest 100,000) should be the basis for the # of people represented by one representative, following standard rounding rules. And, along with redistricting (which should be done by independent committees), should be reestablished every census.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Whatcha thinking about now?

Yup, but Republics are a type of democracy. The only difference between the two is that a Republic guarantees (to borrow the phrase), certain inalienable rights, by virtue of written laws.

I don't disagree it is a type of democracy, but the way our country was founded and created the republic is founded upon individual states not as one unified country. So rights to a significant degree are still reserved at the state level with a certain degree of authority given to a consolidated federal government. The election of the President as head of that federal office is still based upon the states retaining their own uniqueness and authority as states and citizens of and within those states.

A state may decide how it will represent and utilize that right for itself in deciding it's electoral votes but it can not decide for another state. Nor can the populace vote, even under a petition, demand the states vote in a certain way. Figure even if all the states change how they elect their "Electoral Voters" and how those votes will be cast the constitution still determines how things are done on a federal level.

Figure the President is the only office in the federal system that is elected by input from all the states through the electoral system. While potentially corrupt it still ensures a degree of equality between all citizens and their votes that is not specifically to be found when comparing votes based upon population density. If one person can convince more by visiting less space that's not a equal vote at best it's directing potentially more money or bribes into a given area. Something potentially we see already, with the electoral college and the focus upon the density population sites.

Yet four times historically now we've seen were the popular vote into those density spots has failed when the electoral vote went to where the state vote might be said to have balanced it out. Yet from the charts I've seen for this election cycle one thing does show, the balance of this election shows the vote shows the popular vote went where the money went, which doesn't specifically indicate that is where the most support went. But it does seem to match the money dispersal for the last two election cycles as well, so clearly showing the runners campaigned based upon the electoral college in this and the last two election cycles.

The problem here is that the map didn't turn out as anticipated so now once again the Electoral college debate is on again in my opinion. Will it change it? Probably not for in the long run I personally think whomever is running will still prefer the odds of the numbers with the electoral college being in their favor by the density areas vice having to campaign across the entirety of the country and hoping to carry it all. Figure 4 times in roughly 248 years is not really that bad of odds given it only happens every four years.

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: Whatcha thinking about now?

Well you know Malinia doesn't really
have to live in the White house,she could live in the Towers with the kid. But perhaps Donald is afraid she will steal the silver(gold) utensils,and blow the country.

But that just how I imagine it...

This isn't the Adult section. Oh wait! You meant that as in leave. LOL Silly me.

[thalassa]

Re: Whatcha thinking about now?

Figure 4 times in roughly 248 years is not really that bad of odds given it only happens every four years.

except in those 248 years, we've had 45 presidents, and 4 out of 45 presidents is nearly 9%