SFSU Campus Employee Assaults White Sudent for Cultural Appropriation

[B. de Corbin]

Re: SFSU Campus Employee Assaults White Sudent for Cultural Appropriation

I definitely agree that the British Museum is a wonderful institution that has done a lot to preserve and study artifacts and cultures. I'm not knocking the institution as a whole!...

Oh, I know that . I just like making things as complicated as I possibly can.

[thalassa]

Re: SFSU Campus Employee Assaults White Sudent for Cultural Appropriation

Which brings up a point...

What *is* the point of a museum?

Is it supposed to be a showcase for your own culture? Or is it supposed to be a place for people to learn about other cultures?

Because, lets be honest, most people aren't going to Greece to see the Elgin marbles, they'd just see them because they were there and they figured they should go to the museum...and barely anyone would get to see them. Really, most people going to Greece just want to sit by the sea and maybe see the Parthenon. But (particularly here in the US), most people can't afford to go overseas more than a handful of times, and if they are, they are more than likely going to London, Paris, Rome, or Dublin. I'm not saying Britain should keep them because Americans are more likely to get culture if they stay there, lol.

But--If museums are a place to learn about other cultures, the British Museum should keep them (they are the 3rd most visited museum worldwide), send them to the Louvre (#2), or to the Palace Museum in Beijing (#1).

Or--If museums are just a place to learn about one's own culture, then hey, give it all back. And while we are at it, never leave where one lives. There's no point. Only our own cultures are worth hosting and learning about.


(I'm pretty sure they are both, and there are no good answers to these questions.)

[DanieMarie]

Re: SFSU Campus Employee Assaults White Sudent for Cultural Appropriation

I think they can play both roles.

I'm a bit torn on this issue, to be honest. On one hand, I've learned a LOT about other cultures by visiting various museums around Europe. I think they do play an important role in that aspect, and I believe they should continue to do so.

HOWEVER, there is a sort of sameness to European museums that gets really tedious at times. Between Berlin, Paris, and London, you tend to get a lot of the same sorts of things. One of the reasons I actually like the British Museum so much is that it has a wonderful and informative section of Celtic artifacts from various places in Britain. In that respect, it occupies both roles well. The Reijksmuseum in Amsterdam is another great example of an exhibit that does a fantastic job of telling a country's own story. Berlin's public museums tend to focus more on the modern history of the country or international artifacts, and it sort of feels like it's only telling part of the story. Berlin has more museums per capita than anywhere else in Europe, but it's hard to learn about the ancient Germanic people here, or to learn about folk art in this part of the world, and stuff like that. That being said, the German Historic Museum is pretty nifty, and I adore the Museum of Prehistory in Halle (though sadly, not that many people go to Halle).

One of the reasons I like going to new places is to learn about new cultures. It gets kind of boring when you see the same kinds of exhibits everywhere (not to mention the fact that pretty much every European city is full of pizza and H&M these days). Then again, museums aren't just for tourists; they're for people who live there as well, and in that respect, they are great places to learn about other cultures. So I don't know...they can be both.

I think that's why I feel that this should always be a case-by-case issue rather than to simply return all objects to their countries of origin.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: SFSU Campus Employee Assaults White Sudent for Cultural Appropriation

I love going to local museums, even if they are little ho-dunk museums in an old 12 x 12 homesteader's shack (yeah, I'm that kind of nerd. You never want to go on a family trip with me). Then there are the Detroit Historical Museum & Dossin Great Lakes Museum, the Henry Ford Museum/ Greenfeild Village, and other really nice local history museums...

Also, I love the Detroit Institute of Arts - my interest in ancient history/cultures, as well as art, came from trips there. I'm never going to get a chance to travel beyond Canada. It would be a terrible pity if those collections were not available to people like me.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: SFSU Campus Employee Assaults White Sudent for Cultural Appropriation

The British Museum in London took a lot of 'Celtic' and BRonze age artifacts from Wales even though we have our own national museum. Personally I think they should give them back. Why do we have to have the copies and they get the originals? Because 'everyone' goes to London. Not good enough.

As for what people do when they go to Greece, I once heard some American tourists complaining very loudly that there should be an escalator up the side of the Parthenon.
*sheesh*

[DanieMarie]

Re: SFSU Campus Employee Assaults White Sudent for Cultural Appropriation

The British Museum in London took a lot of 'Celtic' and BRonze age artifacts from Wales even though we have our own national museum. Personally I think they should give them back. Why do we have to have the copies and they get the originals? Because 'everyone' goes to London. Not good enough.

As for what people do when they go to Greece, I once heard some American tourists complaining very loudly that there should be an escalator up the side of the Parthenon.
*sheesh*

Haha well, you can never combat those types. And so not to pick on Americans, they do tend to come from everywhere!

I've heard that Scotland and Ireland have similar issues with their artifacts. I guess it's still a complicated issue when it comes from closer to home.

One of the reasons that the museum of Prehistory is in Halle is that the area has a wealth of archeological sites and because they're more recent discoveries, it made more sense to keep things there. Still, on the other hand, far more people visit Berlin and it's a shame that not many people get to see them. I don't think the museum should move, but I do wonder if maybe they could do some sort of cooperation, like lend a rotation of objects that they're not currently exhibiting to the Ethnologisches Musuem (which currently doesn't have any European artifacts at all), or to maybe round out the few German artifacts on display at the Neues Museum.

[DanieMarie]

Re: SFSU Campus Employee Assaults White Sudent for Cultural Appropriation

Just clicked on an article about appropriation vs appreciation and it mentioned Japanese decor in a piece that was largely about drawing inspiration from marginalized groups.

Maybe I'm naive or ignorant here, but are the Japanese at all marginalized? Maybe it's because I'm from the West Coast, where East Asians (especially people from Hong Kong, South Korea and Japan) hold a lot of wealth and power (a huge chunk of the rich in Vancouver are Asian), but I don't know a single person of Japanese descent who feels even sort of marginalized. On top of that, Japan is a rich country with a lot of global power, and it willingly exports its culture elsewhere.

[anunitu]

Re: SFSU Campus Employee Assaults White Sudent for Cultural Appropriation

There was a time when Japan was "blocked" by the west..part of why ww2 happened..If I remember reading right..Japan "Broke" out of its isolation.

Story of Isolation.

[DanieMarie]

Re: SFSU Campus Employee Assaults White Sudent for Cultural Appropriation

Yeah I'm aware of that, and I know that they faced a ton of discrimination during the War, but they've been a global superpower and a huge cultural force for my entire life. I have trouble calling a country marginalized when my first favourite show came from there (my first two, actually...they were both anime), my first car came from a company from that country (and every single other car my family has owned as well), a good chunk of the stuff in my apartment came from companies based in that country, and a lot of that stuff was also invented in that country.

Don't get me wrong....I think wearing a stereotypical geisha costume is in bad taste and recognize the offensiveness of Mickey Rooney's character in Breakfast at Tiffany's, but I don't see what's wrong with being into anime cosplay, wearing silk kimonos as bathrobes, or being into Japanese decorating trends. Especially since the latter is something Japanese designers willingly export throughout the world (I'm sure Marie Kondo is thrilled with her popularity).

[monsno_leedra]

Re: SFSU Campus Employee Assaults White Sudent for Cultural Appropriation

I lived in Japan for 6.5 years and in many ways they encourage you to adopt their ways. Not specifically religious norms but many of their social and cultural norms. Granted I lived in a more remote and Agricultural based area in Northern Japan so quite a bit different from the Kanto Plains area around Tokyo. Even if we were military and influenced the area it wasn't a far drive to get away from the base's influence.

[Briton]

Re: SFSU Campus Employee Assaults White Sudent for Cultural Appropriation

The British Museum in London took a lot of 'Celtic' and BRonze age artifacts from Wales even though we have our own national museum. Personally I think they should give them back. Why do we have to have the copies and they get the originals? Because 'everyone' goes to London. Not good enough.

As for what people do when they go to Greece, I once heard some American tourists complaining very loudly that there should be an escalator up the side of the Parthenon.
*sheesh*

People say 'but everyone goes to London', and I was tempted to say that before quickly rethinking, well if the originals were in Wales where they belong, they'd get more footfall!

At least it's the British museum, not the English museum!

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: SFSU Campus Employee Assaults White Sudent for Cultural Appropriation

People say 'but everyone goes to London', and I was tempted to say that before quickly rethinking, well if the originals were in Wales where they belong, they'd get more footfall!

At least it's the British museum, not the English museum!

Still in England though... *sniff*

[Briton]

Re: SFSU Campus Employee Assaults White Sudent for Cultural Appropriation

Still in England though... *sniff*

True, true. And a shame the British government show nothing but contempt for Wales. Makes me angry and I'm not even Welsh!

[Medusa]

Re: SFSU Campus Employee Assaults White Sudent for Cultural Appropriation

I have a white friend who lives in Seattle, Washington. She's been a practicing Geisha for over 15 years. I mean she learned the dance, the moves, the art, the make up, the customs and the respect. She's awesome at it. It's her joy of life. Her respect and admiration for the custom is what's important here.

[Briton]

Re: SFSU Campus Employee Assaults White Sudent for Cultural Appropriation

I see what you mean, borrowing stuff from a particular culture (regardless of its precedence) on the basis it looks cool, is offensive, reducing a culture, particularly if the facets are derived from hardship, to a fashion statement is in bad taste.

However, this kid a) wasn't copying African American culture (he knew full well it existed long beforehand) and b) it may well have been an expression of a sub-culture he belonged to.