Derailment du jour and you

[ThePaganMafia]

I don't get it. Human conversation naturally evolves and changes. What is the big deal? Why is the control of free flow of thought so important. And if it is what is the point of a forum?

[thalassa]

Re: Human sacrifice: What's it good for?

I don't get it. Human conversation naturally evolves and changes.

Then start a new topic.

Derailment is one thing when its one or two posts--not when it's one or two pages.

What is the big deal? Why is the control of free flow of thought so important.

Because, for those of us that *have* to read every topic, it's frigging annoying when everything and its mother's cousin's dog's flea to turn into a political debate/rant/shitstorm. Or a big pile of degenerative name calling to clean up after the fact. Because in over a decade of doing this, we know what works and what turns into a supernova of turning decent people into jerks. Because asking grown adults to stay reasonably on topic when we have oh-so-many threads where you can deviate to your heart's content should be a perfectly reasonable request. Because it's not that hard to say, "Hey, can a mod start a new topic on X?" or "Wow, I really thought that point was so interesting that I started a new topic (follow link here)."

This is not, and never has been, under *any* of its management, a free speech zone--we tried that experiment for a week or so and true free speech got too many people's into very big wads and turned everyone into slavering beasts. If Rok would have gotten his way, 90% of the forum would have been banned. It is a privately owned entity and the people that clean up the messes when members lose their manners and their minds aren't paid. So whatever annoys them the least in their pitiful free time is what we go with here.

And if it is what is the point of a forum?

Well, this is a PAGAN form. And for a PAGAN forum, we sure seem to have an overabundance of not even remotely Pagan topics and a serious dearth of even remotely Pagan ones. 1) It scares away the newbies. 2) There are totally political bitchfit forums (and every other kind of forum out there) for your free flow of whatever thought you can think of --and if you can't find one that suits you, try facebook...its devolved into that over the past few months anyhow.

This *was* actually a Pagan topic for once...

[ThePaganMafia]

Re: Derailment du jour and you

I never said anything about free speech. I am not quite ignorant on that concept. I just said I don't get it. Which is honest. I don't get it. But, I understand your position. Thank you for calrifying.

I even had a constructive comment on the thread in question about the role of religion in the rise of civilization. Which I think would be an excellent diacussion to have if anyones interested.

Edit: I didn't start this thread. I've been framed.

[thalassa]

Re: Derailment du jour and you

I moved it so we could stop derailing the other thread...which I was actually interested in.

[thalassa]

Re: Derailment du jour and you

Double posting to add that I would be interested in discussion the rise of civilization and the role of religion--I think its a very important one, both in terms of biological evolution (that let religion develop) and early cultural evolution (which I think allowed further biological evolution and further cultural evolution).

[Rae'ya]

Re: Derailment du jour and you

I even had a constructive comment on the thread in question about the role of religion in the rise of civilization. Which I think would be an excellent diacussion to have if anyones interested.

This right here is the reason that I, personally, come down so hard on prolonged derailment. Because if we allow two pages worth of inane back and forth (on a topic that already has it's own thread) then you don't get to make constructive comments on interesting topics, and excellent discussion on interesting topics doesn't get to happen. Because then the topic dies before it even begins, because no one wants to come in with the serious comment after two pages of inanity.

Is that what you want?

Now, if the derailment had been something like the role of religion in the rise of civilisation... that's a good example of a perfectly acceptable derailment that I (and I'm fairly sure most of the staff) would leave well enough alone. If it got big enough, or if someone made a request, I'd split it into it's own topic so that we could then continue to have not one, but two excellent pagan discussions.

So the lesson here is that the natural evolution of conversation is only squashed when it's irrelevant, inane, snarky, inappropriate, breaking forum rules or killing a topic that we think is beneficial to the forum as a whole. Constructive evolution of conversation is welcomed with open arms and does not get squashed but may get moved to it's own thread in order to facilitate further discussion.

[anunitu]

Re: Derailment du jour and you

Perhaps a totally off the hook thread pinned for those moments when our minds wander,that could perhaps leave a link if anyone finds the matter of interest.
A button perhaps?

[thalassa]

Re: Derailment du jour and you

Perhaps a totally off the hook thread pinned for those moments when our minds wander,that could perhaps leave a link if anyone finds the matter of interest.
A button perhaps?

Its called the "What are you thinking" thread, and there's a think on your browser called a "favorites" list...


With that being said, once something gets beyond 2-3 posts of off topic nonsense in a thread that is *actually* about a subject, its time to get over it. Its one thing to make a joke, its another thing to respond to the joke, but at some point, take your one liner (in an actual topic) and ADD SOMETHING OF SUBSTANCE TO IT. We are now at the point that I can't even figure out what some threads are supposed to be about, or where the posts are for the actual subject of the conversation.


Because if the public at large can't control themselves, and we have to do it, its going to be terrible and tyrannical. I promise you that. Like I tell my kids, if you can't control yourself and I have to do it for you, life will suck for you as sheer punishment for making me do something I don't want to do.

[anunitu]

Re: Derailment du jour and you

I might remind that when I tried to get one thread back on topic I was chastised severely,because the person who was derailing turned ME in...

- - - Updated - - -

And yes I did admit I was a bit to forceful in my attempt,and I have not done even a small suggestion since.

[thalassa]

Re: Derailment du jour and you

I don't really care who did what, when, where, whatever.

Just stop doing it. If someone else is doing it, just ignore them, and get back on topic. Let the moderators moderate--we have multiple timezones of people that keep strange hours, eventually someone will take care of it. Unless of course, it is prohibitively funny and you sprayed your beverage du jour all over your monitor--in which case, a quick written high five for creativity and wit, followed up by something like, "And back on the subject at hand...." may be perfectly appropriate. But we are at the point where this lasts over a page of the thread, sometimes more. That's ridiculous.

We have threads in place for banter, use them.

[anunitu]

Re: Derailment du jour and you

I have absolutely no control of people responding to what I say..I do try to get back on topic,but if others keep going..perhaps I should just stop typing,and I at times get the feeling that if it happens it is ALL me.

- - - Updated - - -

also understand I am not typing thing to force a derailment,but it seems some believe I am doing things on purpose

- - - Updated - - -

That is how it feels from this side.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Derailment du jour and you

I might remind that when I tried to get one thread back on topic I was chastised severely,because the person who was derailing turned ME in...

This isn't directly relevant but there are two misinterpretations here that I want to clear up.

Historically, no one turns you in. Your posts come to staff attention because unlike the rest of the board, we do have a responsibility to monitor things. I've said this before and will again, 95%+ of reported threads are reported by staff members to catch the attention of other staff members and give a concise place to discuss a specific issue. Most of the remaining reported posts are members reporting spam. A member based report that isn't related to spam is just slightly more likely than a unicorn and a member based report regarding a senior member is slightly more likely than a unicorn farting rainbows. If we appear to respond faster in one place than another than generally either

A. The response requires little thought beyond wording so there's no real need to delay
B. The thread is distrusted enough that we'll rush a response on the premise that an imperfect answer now is better than a perfect one in twelve hours
C. The post is at or near the top of our unread list and we have time to kill
D. Any combination of the above (A and C describe the event you're referring to. That thread was third in my unreads when I checked my phone at lunch and I was in no hurry to start an hour drive home)

Regarding chastised severely, there's a continuum of mod/gm/admin wrath. The only active (there's a relatively quiet exception) senior member that is both unbanned and has seen the higher edge of said continuum in recent history is Medusa when I threatened a permaban last year (I think it was last year) if I saw a certain behavior. You were far more likely to get a pink username and a custom title of "Not A Mod" if I had to repeat myself. A ban was not under serious consideration unless things escalated in very messy ways.

[anunitu]

Re: Derailment du jour and you

I have decided to take a time out,being I used to be a member of Witchvox,I think I may just go back for an extended visit.
I do love this forum,but I feel a bit off right now.

[MaskedOne]

Re: Derailment du jour and you

We'll be here (barring cataclysm) when you return.