Heathen Q&A

[Thjoth]

Re: Heathen Q&A

Chisholm's actually isn't in print anywhere that I know of. You can just get the PDF I linked earlier and take it to a printer and have them make a little workbook out of it if you want a physical copy.

As far as I know the story behind the Chisholm translation was that an adherent of Asatru that was fluent in Icelandic/Old Norse was dissatisfied with how the text had been translated, so he went back to the original material and completely re-translated it with Asatru specifically in mind. Some copies were printed (and sold at cost for no profit) and copies were made available online for download.

[Maythe]

Re: Heathen Q&A

Thanks for the heads up about the Larrington trans Thjoth. She's currently my 'go to' version so I'll be just a bit more wary in the future.

When I studied Old English we translated Wyrd as 'fate' or 'doom' - I'm pretty sure my prof would have considered us to be not translating had we left it as 'wyrd'. Which seems a bit wierd (lol) to us Heathens, but it's not an ME word and if you're translating into ME, rather than for the benefit of Heathens I guess 'fate' or 'doom' is as close as you can get to the meaning.

[Dez]

Re: Heathen Q&A

Ok, guys...I need some help.

Given some issues I'm having right now, I had a very helpful and well-meaning friend send me some bindrunes.

Honestly, I don't know spit about bindrunes, and am more then a bit skeptical. Also, what little I've read seems to be saying that you shouldn't put runes together unless you really know what you're doing, due to unforeseen consequences.

I'd like to learn the runes myself, and am having a beast of a time. It's ironic, given how little trouble I have learning other things, like flower species. What are some good resources for learning about this?

[Thjoth]

Re: Heathen Q&A

I honestly can't help you much with them. I've been paying much more attention to lore rather than runes, and when I do pay significant attention to runes I usually treat them more as an alphabet than anything, although I do carve them occasionally with other aims. Most of the examples of bindrunes I've seen in original manuscript/runestone/inscription form are usually either conjoined double runes or runes similar in appearance that have been conjoined. To draw an analogy to a something familiar, it seems to be similar to how in handwriting, people tend to join a double-T - even when the two T's are separated by one or two letters - by using a single crossbar to join the two. It makes it look fancier, and it makes the writing flow a bit better.

So, that said, I don't know of any strict formulae or anything else governing the carving of runes as mystical symbols and bindrunes, but I haven't looked into the subject all that much. Outside of avoiding the use of runes with obvious negative implications (at which point, one has to ask exactly how someone is arriving at the various mystical rune-readings; if it can't be traced back to a rune-poem then I would call bull) and avoiding putting a Nid on yourself, I can't offer much advice.

[Taiga Pagan]

Re: Heathen Q&A

Neither can I, or probably any Heathen who is serious about his religion. Because to us the Runes are a mean of writing, but also a lore, a tool of legends and skald (poetry). Only people with extensive knowledge about Seid can give you a path to deal with the problem. My knowledge of Seid is limited to basic definition and history.

[Dez]

Re: Heathen Q&A

Thanks guys...I figured as much.

This friend is awesome, but more on the new age side of things then I am...while I find the idea of using the runes for mystical purposes interesting, things like the rune poems seem to me like a mnemonic device to learn the runic alphabet. That's about it.

What I originally asked him for his opinion on was something symbolic that I could put somewhere unobtrusive (under the welcome mat at the front door comes to mind) to ward off unwanted attention and gossip.

I know, more pagan then heathen in concept, but I'm at a place where I feel the need of something like that for my piece of mind.

[Thjoth]

Re: Heathen Q&A

The Runes have a definite mystical side to them, though. Remember in the last part of the Havamal:

142.
You will find runes, meaningful staves,
very powerful staves,
very strong staves,
that Fimbul dyed,
that the Ginnregin shaped,
that the God Hropt carved.
143.
Odin among the Aesir, but Dain for the elves,
Dvalinn for the dwarves,
Asvith for the ettins.
I carved some myself.
144.
Know how to carve them, know how to read them,
know how to stain them, know how to wield them,
know how to ask them, know how to bloody them,
know how to send them, know how to sacrifice them.
145.
It is better not to ask, than to sacrifice too much.
A gift always looks for a gift.
It is better unsent, than over sacrificed.
So Thund carved before the doom of mankind.
He rose up and came back after that.

And he then goes on to name the eighteen magical songs that he knows, which in my mind are related to the runes due to their proximity, and how the text segues from one to the other. This is supported by the twelfth song:

157.
I know a twelfth: If I see a hanged man
swinging high in a tree,
I can carve and stain runes,
so that the man walks
and speaks with me.

6. Winning-runes learn, | if thou longest to win,
And the runes on thy sword-hilt write;
Some on the furrow, | and some on the flat,
And twice shalt thou call on Tyr.

7. Ale-runes learn, | that with lies the wife
Of another betray not thy trust;
On the horn thou shalt write, | and the backs of thy hands,
And Need shalt mark on thy nails.
Thou shalt bless the draught, | and danger escape,
And cast a leek in the cup;
(For so I know | thou never shalt see
Thy mead with evil mixed.)

8. Birth-runes learn, | if help thou wilt lend,
The babe from the mother to bring;
On thy palms shalt write them, | and round thy joints,
And ask the fates to aid.

9. Wave-runes learn, | if well thou wouldst shelter
The sail-steeds out on the sea;
On the stem shalt thou write, | and the steering blade,
And burn them into the oars;
Though high be the breakers, | and black the waves,
Thou shalt safe the harbor seek.

10. Branch-runes learn, | if a healer wouldst be,
And cure for wounds wouldst work;
On the bark shalt thou write, | and on trees that be
With boughs to the eastward bent.
11. Speech-runes learn, | that none may seek
To answer harm with hate;
Well he winds | and weaves them all, And sets them side by side,
At the judgment-place, | when justice there
The folk shall fairly win.

12. Thought-runes learn, | if all shall think
Thou art keenest minded of men.

So, one can infer from this that "rune-magic" did exist. One can even make a tenuous argument for the existence of bindrunes based on the fact that all of these examples treat the runes as something that would not already be known, while still sharing the name of "rune" with the common alphabet. That argument would be rather shaky, but I can see how someone could make it.

Honestly, I'm at a point (and you probably are, as well) that I would be comfortable doing some "recon reconstruction" as I like to call it. Basically, if there is a gap in the lore in terms of ritual/magical practice, and one can think of something intelligent that is likely

[thalassa]

Re: Heathen Q&A

Whats the historical context for things like the Aegishjalmur and the Vegvisir?

[Thjoth]

Re: Heathen Q&A

As far as I know, Aegishjalmur and Vegvisir both showed up in the medieval era, which immediately followed the Viking Age and went until 1600 or so. I haven't looked much into medieval magic, but from what little I know it was just this...odd...explosion of occult stuff and I have no idea how it came about in the religious climate of the day. Those symbols may well have been fragmented recollections of the old magic systems, or they may not; I cannot personally say with any authority.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Heathen Q&A

I have to say that in my studies of the early Christian penitentials pre 1000 CE, I have never found condemnation (yet) of anything approaching a bindrune. That's not to say they didn't exist, but that maybe the Church interpreted them as something else. People like Burchard would thunder on against amulets and knot magic, but not specifically against the actual written word.

Of course another explanation (and if I'm going off topic here then I apologise) is that the runes used as amulets etc., were intended to be hidden - at least during the Anglo-Saxon period which is much earlier than the middle ages. For example, the Holborough Spear has both the Tyr and the UR rune (sorry, not sure how to put these into this text)/ The Ur rune is below, the Tyr rune is on top, facing upwards. It's possible that these were meant to spell out/represent the Saxon god Tiw. Tyr usually appeared alone on sword pommels. The tiny size of the letters suggests their presence was never intended to frighten the enemy (and could also explain the Church's ignorance of their existence).
Possibly what mattered most was that the owner knew the runes were there.

If anyone would like a journal article on runes used on cemetery goods, please pm me.

[Taiga Pagan]

Re: Heathen Q&A

If I was practically based, which I am a lot, not totally, thoses stanzas are like a poetic way to tell people to learn to read, write, speak, command and have a distraction with words carved from the runes, because the word is a binding shape of the object or action. To not give way to ignorance, and build a hall of knowledge. It can save your life, and bring peace amongst people.

But it's good reference anyways, because they do have some mystical mean, mainly because to it's abstract representation.

[Dez]

Re: Heathen Q&A

It seems as though teh interwebz ate my second response to this... :P

I don't remember what I said, so it's not too important, but thanks, everyone for your input!!!!

[Treefingers]

Re: Heathen Q&A

I'm dedicating myself to Odin soon. What color candle should I burn for him? How should I approach him? Should I offer some sort of alcohol? If so, what kind?

[Thjoth]

Re: Heathen Q&A

I think you're going to want to do a *LOT* more research before you do something as drastic as becoming fullatru to Odin. You're going to want to read the Poetic and Prose Eddas completely through a few times, at least. Maybe the Sagas of the Icelanders as well, if you can find the volumes at a local library; only one company publishes the complete Sagas translated to English, so if you decide to buy the books yourself, they're going to cost you about $300 and they'll have to be imported directly from Iceland. Unless you can afford that, I would say you need to trawl through the library of a nearby university to find them.

The reason I say this is, judging by the way you framed your questions, you need a basic grounding in what constitutes our normal ritual activities before you do something like making an Oath of that caliber. We don't burn candles at all, for example, and we almost always offer alcohol. I know a few Heathens that participate in some sort of blood sacrifice in the form of the killing of an animal (sheep and pigs are popular) for especially important rituals as well, although the logistics of that make it a bit of a pain, so not everybody does so. If or when you do make a decision on who to bond yourself to, I personally would prefer that kind of ritual.

Heathenry is a path of long study, research, and contemplation. You're not going to have to do academic level research, but it helps. My suggestion is to get a copy of the Poetic and Prose Eddas and start there. You can find the version of the Elder or Poetic Edda that I personally use here. I studied these texts for nearly two years before I became fullatru to Tyr, and I would suggest that you do the same. Especially where Odin is involved, if you don't find out everything you possibly can, you WILL wind up regretting it.

[Gunnarr]

Re: Heathen Q&A

Thjoth,

Aegishjalmr, first turned up in Nordic heroic poems on Sigurds Helmet in 'The Lay of the Volsungs', it is the helmet he takes from Fafnir. According to Snorri the helmets original owner was Fafnirs father 'Hreidmarr'.